Queen finding.

Lots of us have droppping hearts when we read a wonderful method in a book or a forum and then the whole thing is spoiled by the dreaded phrase "Find the Queen".

So all this thread is designed to highlight how you find your queens and so give the newer members some ideas to try when the basic techniques have failed.

I use the pairing system if I am struggling.

I leave three pairs of combs spaced so that they are equally apart to leave good gaps to get light on the outer sides. I then leave them EXPOSED to light for 20 minutes, have a cuppa or work other hives, then return and she most likely (note the bees do nothing invariably) will be in the dark between one of the three sets of pairs. Works well even on dull days.


Over to you.

PH

If I get on the edge of my nerves searching for, I place frame with brood from other hive and come after about half an hour. The queen is there.. I didn't invent it, just use what learned.
But usually I find her when needed without frame shifting..

Place that frame flat on the top bars, Goran?

I actually find it easier to find the queen by not searching for her .. if you just allow your eyes to scan the frame very often the movement of the queen and her entourage stands out as a patch in the rest of the bees on the frame. I find that the more you look for the queen the less easy she is to spot,

I have one queen who nearly always comes up to the top bar to look and see what's happening when I open up and another that always runs to the bottom and disappears off into a corner of the hive.

None of my queens are marked but you get to know their characteristics in the hive and you just seem to find them by instinct rather than design. The first year of beekeeping finding queens is always hard .. it just seems to get a bit easier (barring the queens that really do like to hide) the more inspections you do.

Marking queens can sometimes be a hindrance - you tend to search for the white/blue/red whatever dot rather than the queen.
It also helps if your eyes work

The queen on one of my hives was unmarked and I hadn't seen her for almost a year, but they were making swarm preparations so I simply had to find her. I went through each frame but no luck, then I did it again, but she still was invisible. Eventually, I basically sieved the bees through a QX and there she was. She was actually a very small queen, which is probably why she eluded me, but also a first-class layer which surprised me since I thought a good layer would be a big lass.

Anyway, as a technique of last resort, shake the bees off the frames into a box with a queen excluder - the queen will be left in the box.

I pair frames too. Sometimes when dealing with aggressive bees I've had to pair those frames in separate boxes. Correx nucs are really handy for that. Doesn't work if your queen is on the floor
If you know you are having to find your queen it helps to not smoke them

As an aside, I have had very small queens be excellent, and some massive ones that were squash material.


Back to the topic...

PH

Bring along a bee buddy, they usually say 'there she is' before you've started looking

Try not to look for her...just let your eyes take in the whole picture. The queen has a very distinct way of walking and she pushes the others out of her way. Her long reddish coloured legs make her stand slightly differently too.

I mark all of my queens with numbered plastic discs as soon as they emerge in the incubator but, occassionally, a disk can fall off and its useful to be able to find her without the disk.

Swarm said:

Place that frame flat on the top bars, Goran?

Click to expand...

No, in the middle of the brood. After, I return that frame back to original hive.

As I had to admit a few years ago, reading glasses help!

Another aside, many years ago now I was given the chance to go through some 20 hives queen finding and your eye indeed gets tuned in.

So my tip is try to get that chance yourself.

Thank you Mrs Thom fae Turra... now long gone but always remembered.

PH

Poly Hive said:

As an aside, I have had very small queens be excellent, and some massive ones that were squash material.


Back to the topic...

PH

Click to expand...

I have a queen, well went to winter, was huge but had the smallest of brood nest, loads of bees other colonies twice the size.
if you are looking for the queen that must be your only concern, if you take note of other things such as brood stores that bee with pretty pollen you get distracted and the queen if on frame iludes you. Very often when lifting a frame out look at the next frame inside the hive you can sometimes see the queen running down the comb.
When you lift a frame from hive check the dark side first, look round sides and edges and across middle.

Some beekeepers can open a hive, observe the bees on top of the top bars of the brood frames for a mo, then pick two frames out and split them to reveal the queen. I wish I could do that, its a neat trick.

Swarm said:

Bring along a bee buddy, they usually say 'there she is' before you've started looking

Click to expand...

Too true. Or just a non beek friend - on several occasions I have had friends go is that the queen way before I spotted her

On tricky ones I remove brood box, leave supers for the flyers, take a break and return a bit later once brood box has emptied. Times easier.

RAB made a good suggestion not so long back for real tricky to find or if aggressive - think it was along the lines of remove brood box, replace with empty combs and one frame of open brood, shake each frame from original box in to new box, queen excluder on, old brood box back on top. Close up. Next day most nurse bees moved up on brood in top box and queen will be on on the only frame of brood in bottom. Not tried it but logged if I get really stuck.

Aye that works but...................................................................................

Bloody rough beekeeping.

Our aim surely is to be gentle and kind to our girls?

I have a Taramov board here that I doubt I will ever use again.It made for a great demo talking point but I now ponder the stress on the bees.

PH

plenty of methods of queen finding involving shaking through an excluder ect, better to close up and inspect later

Poly Hive said:

Aye that works but...................................................................................

Bloody rough beekeeping.

Our aim surely is to be gentle and kind to our girls?

I have a Taramov board here that I doubt I will ever use again.It made for a great demo talking point but I now ponder the stress on the bees.

PH

Click to expand...

Yep - but sometimes necessary if all else fails. More aimed at those bad-un colonies wanting to inflict damage