Locating the queen

After the demise of the queen last year, I never marked & clipped her successor for a number of reasons - the hive was so busy I couldn't find her, I didn't want to overly disturb the hive, etc. although the real reason was probably my inexperience. Now that they've come through the winter, the numbers will be quite low, so I thought I should do it once it's warm enough to open the hive.

My question is: what's the easiest way to track her down? I've tried doing it when the hive was very busy and just could not see her.

Have the paint and scissors ready at first inspection in April, but if you fail to find her after two looks through the frames just try again in a week or two. They are much easier to find that time of year so the law of averages will work in your favour eventually. I don't think it's critical to get her first time. Swarming usually happens a moth or two later so you have plenty of chances.

i also have trouble spotting HM so in April i am going to ask a beekeeping friend or two to come with me with the whole aim of the inspection to find and mark HM then check space, food etc.
i figure that 6 doddery old eyes are going to be better than 2 to spot her.

Maybe wait until there are some mature drones about ... just in case.
Having a friend check frames as well helps.

dn170221 said:

Maybe wait until there are some mature drones about ... just in case.
Having a friend check frames as well helps.

Click to expand...

I hadn't thought about the availability of drones - it's a bit risky if it isn't possible to requeen!

I rarely see my queens and not seeing them doesn't really bother me. In fact when I do see one it takes me by surprise! It's much easier to spot a single stationary egg at the bottom of a cell than a single bee scurrying about amongst thousands. You have eggs you have a queen within the past 3 days.

I am with Torque on this.
But if you want to breed from a specific queen to improve your stock finding the lass is essential.

I prepare 3 nuc boxes label 1, 2 and 3
start looking through frames for queen and put combs successively in boxes 1 2 and 3.
You may be luck and find her usually on last frame or skulking in a dark corner of the brood... however if you did not find her and there were eggs... she must be in one of the nucs, make up with spare frames, set them together and swap around to balance the flying bees.
Inspect in seven days time, one colony will have fresh eggs and the queen will be in there. take out the new frames you placed in and check them over, move the other frames together in pairs, good possibility queen will be between one of them.
Wost case scenario.. you can sieve the bees through a wire qx.

Reunite colonys or leave split to allow then to raise a new queen each.
Good luck

Yeghes da

Do bear in mind the question 'why?'
If there is plenty of brood in all stages, you do not need to find her.
Painting her lets you know if she has been superseded.
A painted queen is easier to find if you need to squash her.
If you are doing a split it is useful to know where the queen is. Painting her makes it easier.

So, it is not worth undertaking an exercise that will set back the colony and harm honey production just to paint the queen.

Hi Murray,
You are absolutely right to try to find the queen before the colony has expanded. My method which works very well is to smoke entrance lightly that's all. I usually find her up high on a frame this time of the year and her movement just pings out at me. You don't have to find her first time, but it is no good waiting until you need to find her for an artificial swarm, when the hive will be full of bees for obvious reasons! Good luck, you will get the knack.

Good chance she will be on a frame with eggs. Look extra hard at those frames.

bpmurray said:

After the demise of the queen last year, I never marked & clipped her successor for a number of reasons - the hive was so busy I couldn't find her, I didn't want to overly disturb the hive, etc. although the real reason was probably my inexperience. Now that they've come through the winter, the numbers will be quite low, so I thought I should do it once it's warm enough to open the hive.

My question is: what's the easiest way to track her down? I've tried doing it when the hive was very busy and just could not see her.

Click to expand...

If you don't find her after two passes: move the brood box several metres away and put new bb on the original site. Flying bees will return to the original site = fewer bees in original bb.
Go through original bb again. If that fails: take a 3rd bb and distribute brood frames in pairs between the two bb, with spaces between the pairs. Q is likely to be between one of the paired frames and unlikely to jump to the next pair
Does it matter - yes, beekeeping is far more satisfying if your Q is marked.

Hi, seeing queens is in experience, to get there you need to do things the same every time.
Start at one end, don't look too hard just scan the frame, first on one side, then on the other and finally scan the first side again, she has a habit of running underneath to the other side but generally only once. She tends to be on a nice quiet frame, she is likely to be on a frame with brood, she moves differently, after a while you get used to just seeing her for a split second but it registers in your mind and you stop scanning! If you get a large number of bees in one spot breath gently on them and they will thin out.
Amari has given you the best advice for when you REALLY need to find her. Good luck, it comes with practise!
E

Mid afternoon, take outer frames out to make space so that the remaining frames can be separated into two groups if necessary (but check these carefully first, just in case). Always lift frame and look on the 'dark' side first (side not exposed to light as you separate frames).. Scan outside of frame, working towards centre, looking for patterns of bee court or pronounced queen movement (she travels across frames with a different disposition to workers and can quickly slip through a gap or over the edge, often going back and forth away from the light)! Replace frame, leaving a gap to the next to prevent frame-hopping. Focus more on brood frames/ eggs. She can often be spotted by looking down between frames with a quick glance, as she tends to stand a little taller than surrounding bees. If not seen in first few frames, deliberately separate into two groups of frames (half split technique). Work similarly through second group. If not found, begin again on first group and so on. Pointless going through more than twice imo. Minimum smoke at all times. I personally wouldn't sieve bees to find her - far too disruptive..


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And don't forget to check the coverboard/QX, too!!

If I am failing to find, I split the hive to a nuc and original.. Within 2 hours one half is unhappy (v noisy).. she is in other half. Easier to find.
Still struggling? move unhappy half to original site to reduce bee numbers more (foragers move to unhappy Queenless one.. Then re look.