Which Queen Type Best for Beginner?

[For want of a better word]

Wing morphometery was meant to be used (and was) for distinguishing crosses of Amms with Carniolans/Italians from Amms...in particular between Carniolans and Amms which can have very similar colouration, it told you if they were a hybrid. It was never meant to be used to indicated the degree of Ammness. As PH has already said you can selectively breed for "improved" negative discoidal shifts etc. Doesn't make an Amm out of a sows ear.

Totally incorrect... where do you get this stuff and nonsence from?
No point in continuing this argument.... as far as I can see just an excercise in trolling.
Nos da

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Totally incorrect... where do you get this stuff and nonsence from?
No point in continuing this argument.... as far as I can see just an excercise in trolling.
Nos da

At the risk of further incurring your wrath, may I say that Beefriendly is absolutely correct. Morphometry/ biometric measurement has been used in Southern Ireland for many years, precisely for the purpose identified by Beefriendly.

 

[Beefriendly]

Totally incorrect... where do you get this stuff and nonsence from?

May I politely suggest you read your Ruttner.
Or go stand in the naughty corner for casting nasturtiums.

 

[mbc]

So, you're saying that the question is one of authenticity. How does the average beekeeper know what they have?

At the end of the day, it all comes down to taking someones word for it.

Got there in the end

 

[For want of a better word]

May I politely suggest you read your Ruttner.
Or go stand in the naughty corner for casting nasturtiums.

### The Correlation using wing morphometry ( Identify program Tolfinski) on a DNA certified cohort of Amm showed a confidence interval of 95%.

Wing Morphometry as used by Ruttner et al*** it would seem is not to be relied upon, particularly when trying to identify hybrids... possibly still a good basic tool with " pure" subtypes

Even the DNA techniques I was utilising 10 years ago in identification of marine virus are primitive in comparison to the techniques being developed and in use today.... seems to have moved into the realms of high powered statistical analyses.

***As out of date and as much use as testing witches by chucking them in the village pond... if she drowns she was not a witch... but if she floats... well burn her as a witch anyway!!


And the point is... this thread has become just that ... a witch hunt!!

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

Wing Morphometry as used by Ruttner et al*** it would seem is not to be relied upon...

If you read Ruttner you would know he didn't simply rely on wing morphometry as it can be misleading if used on it's own; as shown by some the Linnaean specimen Amm's (circa 1778) that show a range of discoidal shift from -5 to +1. Several other characteristics were also used to assign species and distinguish crosses. Something that is largely forgotten today.

 

[For want of a better word]

Several other characteristics were also used to assign species

Exactly as was stated several posts ago... and in other threads.......

However now we have DNA analyses... and thus there can be no argument... but there again the little man who lives under the bridge will, no doubt, argue against facts ( No change there then!!)

Yeghes da

 

[Codford]

This will be my first year keeping bees and I have a choice of queen type with my two 14x12, 6 frame nucs: Carniolan, Buckfast, Ligustica or Mellifera Mellifera.

Key concerns are swarming and ease of handling; prepared to experiment with a different type in each hive, but I sense I ought to be keeping things simple to start with?

Over to the collective wisdom of the Forum - as always, much appreciated!

Popcorn supplies exhausted.... decided to go for Buckfasts. Thanks to all.

 

[Beefriendly]

but there again the little man who lives under the bridge will, no doubt, argue against facts ( No change there then!!)

You are becoming a tiresome nuisance with your half truths and deliberate works of fiction. I wondered why most people ignored your posts. Now I know why. You have the wit, manners and lack of grace of an odious infant.
So in the politest of requests......
why don't you....

Hopit

 

[yeogi75]

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Popcorn supplies exhausted.... decided to go for Buckfasts. Thanks to all.

An excellent choice Sir.

 

[For want of a better word]

An excellent choice Sir.

Pays your rent!

QED

 

[MartinL]

Popcorn supplies exhausted.... decided to go for Buckfasts. Thanks to all.

Think I mentioned at the start, you might rustle a few feathers?

Easiest bit done, what you do now is what will have the most significant affect on your hobby!

Decision made you can sit back & watch the wrangling continue until the thread is eventually closed. Good luck with the Buckfasts, be sure to let us all know how they & you progress.

Oh &,

How do you know for sure they really are "Buckfasts"?

 

[Codford]

Think I mentioned at the start, you might rustle a few feathers?

Easiest bit done, what you do now is what will have the most significant affect on your hobby!

Decision made you can sit back & watch the wrangling continue until the thread is eventually closed. Good luck with the Buckfasts, be sure to let us all know how they & you progress.

Oh &,

How do you know for sure they really are "Buckfasts"?

Fair point - purchasing from a reputable UK breeder as imported German F1 open mated; but I doubt the "pure" Buckfast exists anymore. Of course, the original Buckfast strain was itself the result of cross breeding and selection.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Think I mentioned at the start, you might rustle a few feathers?


How do you know for sure they really are "Buckfasts"?

Buy from Hivemaker?

 

[Cussword]

Buy from Hivemaker?

Nobody has ever complained about his bees, and he's always about if you need him.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Fair point - purchasing from a reputable UK breeder as imported German F1 open mated; but I doubt the "pure" Buckfast exists anymore. Of course, the original Buckfast strain was itself the result of cross breeding and selection.

There are breeder queens and production queens. Some individuals use the latter as breeders..... generally not satisfactory. Hivemaker is a reputable breeder and a man of integrity, he also uses Brother Adams original mating apiary in Dartmoor. In your position I would have no hesitation in buying from him and to hopefully stop Icanhopit's attempts at being witty;let me make it clear I have no connection with Hivemaker, I only know him by reputation.

 

[mbc]

and to hopefully stop Icanhopit's attempts at being witty.

Why keep up the teutonic miserly attitude?

 

[Gaz1]

Good luck with your choice! Done my first full inspection today such a great feeling seeing they got through the winter And doing great ! Hope you enjoy your time on the site and apiary as much as I have!

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Why keep up the teutonic miserly attitude?

Hello Stucat, silly as ever I see.