What next after pagden failure?

[Erichalfbee]

nothing, the good side is no eggs

I know but after you said " Try next time to only leave a frame of sealed brood"
finman said It really goes wrong then
So I give up.......with firman

 

[jeff33]

The swarm feels the hive its home with one brood frame. It is same, is it open or sealed.

But nothing wrong in eggs either.

From where heck you find all those rules and advantages!!!!

Probably because bees are different and what works with one may not work with another one?

 

[Finman]

Probably because bees are different and what works with one may not work with another one?

Propably.

But after 40 years trials and errors with hundreds of AS I know quite well what works, and what is unsure. But every one does as he does.
.

 

[maddydog]

Finnie, just to clarify, you put the queen into a box with just foundation only?
As you know, many beeks over here use queen excluders. Do you think the presence of built comb in shallows will affect the swarming response even though the queen has no access?

 

[jeff33]

Propably.

But after 40 years trials and errors with hundreds of AS I know quite well what works, and what is unsure. But every one does as he does.
.

Well next time I will try foundation only with no brood and see how it works before putting Pagden to rest.

 

[Finman]

Well next time I will try foundation only with no brood and see how it works before putting Pagden to rest.

IT works badly

 

[Chris B]

Don't see it as a total failure. The swarm that came out is likely smaller than it would have been had you not done a split. Did you end up catching them?

 

[jeff33]

IT works badly

So let me get this right Finman, if you don't put any frame of brood it works badly, if you put an open or sealed frame of brood it works badly. In my books you are saying that AS doesn't work as every possible variation will fail.
If you say only eggs may work you would need to put an empty drawn comb in the hive, wait for the queen to lay in it and do your AS within 3 days... That's if the queen has not stopped laying yet.

 

[jeff33]

Don't see it as a total failure. The swarm that came out is likely smaller than it would have been had you not done a split. Did you end up catching them?

Yes I did and yes it was a lot smaller. I just had to hang of the apple tree like a monkey dressed in a bee suit with a bucket and a brush while my mates were having a drink and taking the piss out of me!!

 

[Eyeman]

It really goes wrong then. When there is a flow, bees draw foundations in 2 days and foragers conrinue their work.

I weighed with balance the effect of AS with foundations. It had no influence.

You must get off the swarming fever, and that is all. It takes 2-3 days.
.
.
AS is very simple. But every guy try to mix it with secondary innovations.
.

2-3 days to squash swarming fever? I wish!

Taking the queen out into a nuc is so quick and simple - providing you can find the queen. Leave just unsealed QC cells in the original hive and re-inspect 1 week later. Then options:
1. Leave one sealed QC to emerge
2. Remove all QC's and requeen
3. Remove all QC's and put frame of eggs or grafts from your best colony and rear some new queens. I use this option of giving them 2 rounds of queen cell building as it provides the necessary brood break for OAV.

 

[Finman]

So let me get this right Finman, if you don't put any frame of brood it works badly, if you put an open or sealed frame of brood it works badly. In my books you are saying that AS doesn't work as every possible variation will fail.
If you say only eggs may work you would need to put an empty drawn comb in the hive, wait for the queen to lay in it and do your AS within 3 days... .

I have not say that only eggs will work

And the Queen starts to lay after 3 days. But you need the brood at that this minute, not after 3 days

Every possible variation will fail. ... Burn that book.

Your are not willing to lear...


I say with 40 years practical experience and with good succes rate.

That is impossible issue. I stop now.
.

.
..

 

[SWEET]

Don't see it as a total failure. The swarm that came out is likely smaller than it would have been had you not done a split. Did you end up catching them?

Hi Chris , your inbox seems full when i tried to send a message , thanks .