What’s your thoughts???

[Mark6629]

Hi,

So, I’m helping a new Beek on the allotments near me, they have no real knowledge of keeping bees. Every time I check mine which are near, I’m asked several questions, I don’t mind, but there also needs to be some sort of self help....

Anyway, they asked if I could take a look at the hive as it smelt funny, straight away I was thinking EFB or AFB?? As there’s been an outbreak of EFB in neighbouring county, Notts.

I take a look, plenty of bees, I mean full, but looks like a laying worker, all drone, shotgun pattern and 4-5 eggs in each cell and smells like rotten socks.....

I tell her to close the hive at dusk (worried as my hives are 200-300m away). I order test kits for EFB & AFB.

Today I went to check, opened up the crown board, all bees dead after being shut in 24hrs, plenty of ventilation, OMF and vents in the roof????

I test for both EFB & AFB, both come up as a negative test, hive still stunk rotten....I’ve only been Beekeeping 5 years myself and never come across this, any ideas?? I’m confused.....

TIA ��

 

[enrico]

My thoughts would be to call the bee inspector. !
E

 

[Mark6629]

Yes, was my next point of call....

 

[Erichalfbee]

While you are waiting for your SBI you could help them by at least putting a cupful of bees in your freezer. Better still a brood frame( just wrap it in a couple of plastic bags.
Imagine what the inside of the hive might be like by the time they get there.

 

[Mark6629]

Good idea, I’ll pass that on....thanks....smells foul at the min, but that could be bacause of the dead bee too...

 

[pargyle]

Hi,



I take a look, plenty of bees, I mean full, but looks like a laying worker, all drone, shotgun pattern and 4-5 eggs in each cell and smells like rotten socks.....

Dandelion honey smells like old socks ...

EFB does not usually smell until very late stage. AFB does smell .. very distinct odour - described on Bee disease course as somewhere between marmite and rotting meat. Matchstick dip test is usually the first indication.

The bees probably suffocated when sealed up even with ventilation it can happen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dandelion honey smells like old socks ...

That crossed my mind but my hives smell like that only when they are bringing it in. Dandelions were a long time ago and what’s not been capped had long been eaten.
I agree in the suffocation though

 

[Mark6629]

Dandelion honey smells like old socks ...

EFB does not usually smell until very late stage. AFB does smell .. very distinct odour - described on Bee disease course as somewhere between marmite and rotting meat. Matchstick dip test is usually the first indication.

The bees probably suffocated when sealed up even with ventilation it can happen.

Did smell a little like rotten meat/ dead animal....both Vita field tests come back negative....did matchstick test and can't really say it was ropey, but tested anyway as precaution for my own hives nearby..

Ive moved plenty of hives in the past and sealed them up, sometimes 48hrs when moving a short distance to re orientate and never lost a hive....this was more or less fully perished in 24hrs :O

 

[Mark6629]

I agree in the suffocation though

When I said closed them up, all she did was close the entrance on the Abelo hive, there is still holes on the entrance reducer in closed position, plus mesh floor and vented roof......

 

[Erichalfbee]

When I said closed them up, all she did was close the entrance on the Abelo hive, there is still holes on the entrance reducer in closed position, plus mesh floor and vented roof......

Did you check whether there was a layer of dead bees on the floor when you looked in?
Any dead ones on the ground in front of the hive?

 

[Mark6629]

Did you check whether there was a layer of dead bees on the floor when you looked in?
Any dead ones on the ground in front of the hive?

None on the mesh floor.....but dead bees outside the hive.....been searching the internet, only other possible thing I can think of at the minute is possible pesticide poisoning???? but the bees were still very much active (even though laying workers and only drone brood) but still doesn't explain the rotten smell?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus?
It’s often confused with poisoning.
Lots of dead bees outside the hive. You often miss it if there’s grass. Dead bees smell. Just a thought.

 

[pargyle]

That crossed my mind but my hives smell like that only when they are bringing it in. Dandelions were a long time ago and what’s not been capped had long been eaten.
I agree in the suffocation though

You want Dandelions.? .. still plenty at the allotment but I do grow them for a colleaguie who has two Tortoises (and i nip the flowers as soon as they shut up)!

But you are right - they are not wall to wall now - but .. the other contender for stinky nectar is Goldenrod. It's a bit early ... but down here everything is weeks ahead .. My cultivated blackberry has fruited and they are ready for picking - at least three weeks earlier than last year. There's always Goldenrod on the railway banking near me and I can usually tell from about 10 yards away from the apiary when they find it ...

 

[Swarm]

Check around in front of the hives, lots of dead with CBPV and they stink.

 

[pargyle]

Check around in front of the hives, lots of dead with CBPV and they stink.

I think you are right Steve .. CBPV is a bee killer when it gets a hold ...dead bees do stink generally.

 

[Bear]

What was the weather like? Could heat have killed them?

 

[Mark6629]

What was the weather like? Could heat have killed them?

last 2 days here have been around 16 in the day, 9-10 at night.....I just don't get why the colony perished so quick.....had a super on, but partially drawn, no worker brood what so ever, all the signs of a laying worker........

 

[hemo]

Were there plenty of stores ?
Starvation isn't unheard of even this time of year and colony collapse can occur overnight esp if locked in.

All we can do is speculate, until SBI visits.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Any chance of foul play by a disaffected (and stung) allotmenteer? Often hear that bees are not universally welcomed on allotments.

 

[Mark6629]

The bees looked busy, covering 9 frames, pollen coming in.....stores in the brood area, shotgun pattern of drone brood and clear signs of laying worker (4-5 eggs in each cell, not central etc) also a few holes in cappings of drones. The thing that worried me was the rotten smell, hence thats why I tested them for both EFB & AFB, but field tests came back negative. Im now thinking possible infestation of Varroa?? due to the irregular hole in the drones that were capped?? and as varroa love drones, and every frame was more or less shotgun pattern drones, could this be the reason for the smell if drone brood dying due to varroa infestation??

Emailed Bee inspector, just waiting for reply.....