Uniting after Artificial swarm

[Jimmys Mum]

Wondered what others do?

I have 6 colonies all successfully having undergone Pagden ASs in recent weeks.
Last year I used this opportunity to increase my stocks but had very little honey as a result. This year I want to maintain my hive numbers and focus on a decent honey crop so I plan to unite.

At what stage do people do this after the new queen has come into lay? The books talk about choosing the 'preferred' queen which could mean saving the old queen if she has a proven track record, but to wait for the new queen to prove herself in terms of temperament, calmness on the comb etc is going to take a couple of brood cycles (I would have thought).

Do people tend to just use the newly mated queen (with lots of new queen substance) once she has laid up a good pattern of worker brood? ...... And just hope for a nicely mannered colony as a result?

 

[enrico]

You have answered most of your own questions! Once she is a proven layer, as long as she doesn't seem nasty, get rid of the old queen.
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[Jimmys Mum]

Thanks Enrico, reassuring to know I'm on the right track

 

[Brigsy]

Bumping this thread to ask a further question. Last year things got a bit muddled as a result of not getting a new queen mated.

My question relates to when to unite the two colonies after a new queen has started laying? Does one keep two colonies going until after the summer flow or do it asap before the summer flow? I guess to maximise honey crop is my aim.

 

[Finman]

My question relates to when to unite the two colonies after a new queen has started laying? I guess to maximise honey crop is my aim.

If you wait that the new Queen lays, you may loose the yield. IT takes too much time, minimum 3 weeks from AS making.

I unite after a week. Essential is that swarming fever is gone from boath hive parts.
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[oliver90owner]

As above, then? Seems same question was asked and answered.

 

[Brigsy]

Hmm, I use the Wally Shaw method, so after only one week I would have one box with old queen and brood without forage force, and the other box will have queen cells, mostly foundation and the foragers.

 

[Finman]

Hmm, I use the Wally Shaw method, so after only one week I would have one box with old queen and brood without forage force, and the other box will have queen cells, mostly foundation and the foragers.

I do it so, that old Queen on foundations, and one brood frame. Then foundation box gets foraging power.

I have once measured the foraging power with AS on balance. IT brought as much honey in one week as normal hive. IT brought 50 kg in 7 days. IT was 7 kg a day.

The laying speed depends on incoming food into hive. What heck the laying queen do in the hive which does not forage.

The laying Queen inspires the bees forage like mad.

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[Erichalfbee]

What heck the laying queen do in the hive which does not forage.



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She sits and waits a week or so till swarming urge has gone then goes back in with her flying bees

 

[Finman]

She sits and waits a week or so till swarming urge has gone then goes back in with her flying bees

In foundation hive it sits 3 days. Bees start to draw cells and then it lays in a week the box full of brood.

Another question is, how do you know that brood part has gove up from swarming.
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If I have put the laying Queen on ready combs, 30% of hives continue swarming preparations = make new Queen cells. On foundations never.
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[Erichalfbee]

Another question is, how do you know that brood part has gove up from swarming.
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The brood part has no flying bees so it doesn't swarm
It will make a new queen when you take the old one away and put her back in the box on the original site. The queen is new and the bees won't swarm

 

[Finman]

The brood part has no flying bees so it doesn't swarm
It will make a new queen when you take the old one away and put her back in the box on the original site. The queen is new and the bees won't swarm

IT makes a normal after swarm after a week.
2/3 becomes so weak that they gove up from swarming.

Brood part flyes happily after a week to the tree branch.

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[Eyeman]

In foundation hive it sits 3 days. Bees start to draw cells and then it lays in a week the box full of brood.

Another question is, how do you know that brood part has gove up from swarming.
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If I have put the laying Queen on ready combs, 30% of hives continue swarming preparations = make new Queen cells. On foundations never.
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Putting the old queen on the old site with just foundation gives the best chance of calming swarming fever. The risk is:
1. She may still swarm straight away with the foragers as there is no brood present. Put a queen excluder under the brood box for a few days until comb has been drawn and she is laying.
2. All may initially appear well for a few week then queen cells appear again: It's time to replace your old queen.

 

[Finman]

Carniolans swarming fever is not so easy to get away as Italians.

I do not know about Black bees' styles.
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