Unclipped Queen,

[sharonh]

I have a very prolific colony on brood and a half. Brood box bursting from seams, plus two supers with no rape seed near me.
This Queen was born last Aug but to date I have never laid eyes on her. Wanted to find her to mark her and tried finding her from first inspections of the year but no joy.
Tackled it again today as bees were so busy with weather so good. Still couldn't find her as hive is just bursting with bees. All crawling over each other & hanging from the frames in piles.
Thing is, there is queen cups here and there, none had anything in them but It will be just a matter of time I guess.
Has anyone had this problem and what steps did you take. Impossible to find a queen with bees piling over each other and hanging from frames. Is there any simple method or should I consider splitting the hive and see which ends up building q cells. Then I'll know which one she is in. I might get to find her then.
Even harder to find when it's brood and half.
Any ideas?


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Finman]

.
Your first job is to give more boxes and foundations. You are in a hurry
Mark the queen when you meet it some day. And marking is not so necessary.

.

 

[Finman]

I
Even harder to find when it's brood and half.
Any ideas?


<3

What about if you have 5 boxes? = normal hive.

Or strong hive 9 boxes?

 

[Dazzabee]

What about if you have 5 boxes? = normal hive.

Or strong hive 9 boxes?

Finman I really must get you to send me some of your super queens on my ships from Hanko/Kotka! 9 brood boxes in one stack must be an awesome sight! Lol

 

[Finman]

Finman I really must get you to send me some of your super queens on my ships from Hanko/Kotka! 9 brood boxes in one stack must be an awesome sight! Lol

i am quite near Kotka

 

[Rover Girl]

We had this last year, and got a method when at Gormanstown, that has worked every time.
Take 4 frames out of the brood box, checking there is no queen on them as you go.Put them in a nuc to one side. Then pair up the other frames - ie 4 x 2 frames, spacing them out over the brood box. Go and have a cup of tea - leave it for half an hour or so. Come back and check each pair, starting with the inside (dark space) of each pair. The queen will be on the inside of one of the pairs. If you don't spot her first time round, she will still be on the dark side when you go through it again.
Hope that's clear! Good luck!

 

[sharonh]

.
Your first job is to give more boxes and foundations. You are in a hurry
Mark the queen when you meet it some day. And marking is not so necessary.

.

Thanks Finman,
Is that my only option, as they are brood and half as is. Two supers, one being capped at moment, second with last few frames being drawn out. I'm not beside rape seed so all wild honey.
I wanted to at least mark this Queen. With cups being built, if I have to do A/S, I won't be able to find her with such a large amount of bees.
If I find any charged cells, what do I do to prevent swarming when can't find queen as don't want to lose such a good queen.
Regards
Sharon


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Rover Girl]

We had this problem last year and got a really good method at Gormanstown.
Take out 4 frames and put in a nuc to one side. Pair up the remaining 8 frames (2 x 4) and spread the pairs across the brood box. Go and have a cup of tea. Come back 30 mins later. Check the pairs of frames, looking at the dark sides (ie the inside) first. The queen will be on the inside of one of the pairs. She will still be there if you don't find her on the first pass.
Has worked every time for us!
Good Luck!

 

[sharonh]

We had this last year, and got a method when at Gormanstown, that has worked every time.
Take 4 frames out of the brood box, checking there is no queen on them as you go.Put them in a nuc to one side. Then pair up the other frames - ie 4 x 2 frames, spacing them out over the brood box. Go and have a cup of tea - leave it for half an hour or so. Come back and check each pair, starting with the inside (dark space) of each pair. The queen will be on the inside of one of the pairs. If you don't spot her first time round, she will still be on the dark side when you go through it again.
Hope that's clear! Good luck!

Thanks for that,
I would try that if was dealing with my other colony but these are unreal.
Each frame is full of bees to the extreme that there on top of each other in piles and dangling off the frames in piles when you lift a frame, bearding over each other. She would just be so hard to spot.
Oh the joys!!


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Finman]

Change the hive TO two brood. Give a brood box of Foundations. It prevents swarming and you renew the brood Combs.

Do inspections and start AS If there ARE real queen cells. Up TO that don't worry too much. Be happy that hive is now OK

 

[rogerb]

You can do this but it will be a palaver on such a big hive;

Get a spare floor and roof, put your half box on it with the supers and then close it up with a lid.
Walk away for five minutes, when you come back one hive will be roaring, the other will not, the quite one has the queen in it.
Now split the split that has the queen in it into a nuc box, same again walk away for five minutes, when you come back one hive will be roaring.
Continue this till you have her on no more than three frames, then have a really good look, she’s there somewhere, find her and mark her and you should be fine next time.

If you find you have to make an artificial swarm you can use the above to do so, but in the interim do as Finman says and give her another brood box full of foundation and she should be happy where she is.

And finally (sorry to go on) if that was my queen I’d hold her back, in too small a hive so that she does go to swarm and then I’d do an artificial swarm and make up nucs with the queen cells she produced, you should easily get three new colonies.

 

[sharonh]

You can do this but it will be a palaver on such a big hive;

Get a spare floor and roof, put your half box on it with the supers and then close it up with a lid.
Walk away for five minutes, when you come back one hive will be roaring, the other will not, the quite one has the queen in it.
Now split the split that has the queen in it into a nuc box, same again walk away for five minutes, when you come back one hive will be roaring.
Continue this till you have her on no more than three frames, then have a really good look, she’s there somewhere, find her and mark her and you should be fine next time.

If you find you have to make an artificial swarm you can use the above to do so, but in the interim do as Finman says and give her another brood box full of foundation and she should be happy where she is.

And finally (sorry to go on) if that was my queen I’d hold her back, in too small a hive so that she does go to swarm and then I’d do an artificial swarm and make up nucs with the queen cells she produced, you should easily get three new colonies.

Thanks Rogerb,
That would be a plan alright. I think it might be the only way of finding her.
Today the bees were crazy busy so tried finding her, but the hive was just full with bearding on top of each other & hanging together from the bottom of every frame I lifted. Was just pointless trying to find her within.
Thanks for your insight, will have to do something before I'm dealing with swarms.
Regards
Sharon


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[sharonh]

Change the hive TO two brood. Give a brood box of Foundations. It prevents swarming and you renew the brood Combs.

Do inspections and start AS If there ARE real queen cells. Up TO that don't worry too much. Be happy that hive is now OK

Thanks Finman,
Will have one last go at finding her then make a decision what to do. Thanks again
Regards
Sharon


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Finman]

Thanks Finman, as they are brood and half as is.
Two supers, one being capped at moment,
second with last few frames being drawn out.

if I have to do A/S, I won't be able to find her with such a large amount of bees.
<3

Believe me, you need not find her. It is not important at all.

- You told that the brood box is like porriage cettle---more room

- Your one Super is capped and bees cannot use it any more.

- The seconf Super has couple of foundations and bees may draw and fill them in few days.

- Expanding colony needs more space even if it does not get honey

- YOu should check the brood frames, how many of them are stores and how many brood. From brood you may anticipate how much new gang will emerge.

- It would be very good that you give a foundation brood box lowest to the hive, and the bees can descend down and draw new brood combs for future. Then you need not think about that (stupid) Bailey method. Bees can renew combs with continuous system.

Don't hesitate with AS making because now you MUST take care of good development which is going in your hive.

Actually your hive is not big at all- yet. But it really need more space . One Super is out and practically the hive has only one Super to be used.
The brood space tells that the hive needs in future 4-6 supers.

One capped super needs 2 more super where bees rippen the nectar. Otherwise they must use brood combs as nectar store and it gives a signal: ready to swarming.

When bees are not so crowded, it is easy to find the queen.

Extract the honey from capped box. You need those combs in the hive. That is the play of the game.

 

[Finman]

.
I am very good to find the queen and it is easy. I use 3 brood box and still it is easy to find.

To search the queen.

- use very little smoke because the queen escapaes for smoke

- When you get the upper brood frames into sight, you see that there is a denser plot of bees in 2 frames. The queen is there.

- Do not lifth those frames, because you may squeeze the queen. Lift some side frame that you may loose others.

*** If you do not find thr queen easily, don't arrange any riots in the hive. Open the hive some another time and perhaps the queen is just there wher it ought to bees.

Splitting hives to see a queen or mark it is a catastrophe to bees. You are not so important person that you can do such things to hives. That operation is ultimate case.

- How to distinquish the queen: It has a big abdomen and when it moves with its long legs, it is very different that of worker.

- the queen is often in the frame where workers are just emerging and where is most eggs.

- If you give much smoke, it runs away from its normal site.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

Think simplicity. Is there laying space in both boxes?

If so, insert a Q/E between them for a couple days. You should be easily able to work out which box she is in. Cross you fingers that it is the shallow, but it is a good start even if she is in the deep box.

 

[sharonh]

.
I am very good to find the queen and it is easy. I use 3 brood box and still it is easy to find.

To search the queen.

- use very little smoke because the queen escapaes for smoke

- When you get the upper brood frames into sight, you see that there is a denser plot of bees in 2 frames. The queen is there.

- Do not lifth those frames, because you may squeeze the queen. Lift some side frame that you may loose others.

*** If you do not find thr queen easily, don't arrange any riots in the hive. Open the hive some another time and perhaps the queen is just there wher it ought to bees.

Splitting hives to see a queen or mark it is a catastrophe to bees. You are not so important person that you can do such things to hives. That operation is ultimate case.

- How to distinquish the queen: It has a big abdomen and when it moves with its long legs, it is very different that of worker.

- the queen is often in the frame where workers are just emerging and where is most eggs.

- If you give much smoke, it runs away from its normal site.

.

Hi Finman,
They are already brood and half with half under, not over , so putting a second brood box under this,will leave the half in the middle. Should I remove the half first & how do I do this if brood and eggs in it.
They probably need more room as you said when so much bearding from frames.
I also found pollen in the second super, should this be anything to worry about.
Sharon


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Finman]

Hi Finman,
They are already brood and half with half under, not over , so putting a second brood box under this,will leave the half in the middle. Should I remove the half first & how do I do this if brood and eggs in it.

I would lift the half finally over the excluder and use it as Super. Brood and half is not handy system.

I also found pollen in the second super, should this be anything to worry about.

It only tells that they have not enough room to store pollen in brood boxes. Nothing to worry about.

You should inspect the big brood box what it has inside. and look how dark are brood frames.

As I have said about my 3 langstroth broods, the lowest is normally full of pollen in July.

.

 

[sharonh]

I would lift the half finally over the excluder and use it as Super. Brood and half is not handy system.




It only tells that they have not enough room to store pollen in brood boxes. Nothing to worry about.

You should inspect the big brood box what it has inside. and look how dark are brood frames.

Ok, so I put half box over q excluder and new brood box under to make double brood.
I have no drawn frames so they will have work to draw the frames.
Will this stop the honey coming into the supers as was hoping to get a nice amount of honey this year.
So when I remove the half brood box to put over q excluder, I must brush all bees off incase queen is in it. Don't want her up over Q excluder.


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