swarms

[eddyh]

I found two swarms at the back of my field tonight about ten feet from each other,one about the size of a couple of oranges and the other about the size of a rugby ball.The question is should i hive them together or in nucs separatley?
thanks.

 

[midnight sun]

I found two swarms at the back of my field tonight about ten feet from each other,one about the size of a couple of oranges and the other about the size of a rugby ball.The question is should i hive them together or in nucs separatley?
thanks.

Someone with more experience will be along shortly but I would think about it in this way. Would there be two separate swarms if there was only one Queen between them. What would happen if you put two Queens in the same hive ( baring in mind that usually they will not tolerate each other)
Have a think and post your thoughts.. it's a good way to learn.

 

[itma]

The rugby ball is likely a prime swarm, headed by a mated Q.

The tiddler is almost certainly a cast (headed by a virgin) that has come from a hive that lost a prime swarm over a week ago.

I wouldn't consider putting them together. (unless I could find and remove that virgin ... no chance for me!)

But I think you should be checking your hives and stopping the one that has just lost a prime swarm from also losing casts.
The one that has got down to casting "a couple of oranges" has likely got very few bees left.

 

[eddyh]

Thanks for the advice and i will put them in a couple of nucs tomorrow and check the rest of my hives,i have demareed some of my hives but probably missed one again.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Thanks for the advice and i will put them in a couple of nucs tomorrow and check the rest of my hives,i have demareed some of my hives but probably missed one again.

I wouldnt leave them untill tomorrow, they may be gone, or have you already caught them?

 

[oliver90owner]

I wouldnt leave them untill tomorrow

Eddies post was at 8.06pm. They are not so likely to leave now, tonight, are they? And by the time he might have acted on your advice it would be close to dark! They will still be there early in the morning unless they went between his posts, which is unlikely.

Unless they came from two different hives, they are likely both casts or a split swarm. Not very likely a prime and a cast, I would think. Throwing them together will make little odds if casts, but need a Q/E below to make the virgins sort out which is going to head the colony. Otherwise c some may be ofv again.

 

[midnight sun]

I wouldnt leave them untill tomorrow

Eddies post was at 8.06pm. They are not so likely to leave now, tonight, are they? And by the time he might have acted on your advice it would be close to dark! They will still be there early in the morning unless they went between his posts, which is unlikely.

Unless they came from two different hives, they are likely both casts or a split swarm. Not very likely a prime and a cast, I would think. Throwing them together will make little odds if casts, but need a Q/E below to make the virgins sort out which is going to head the colony. Otherwise c some may be ofv again.

Ah I get it. I didn't understand (or read) the original post properly. I thought that two different swarms had appeared by chance near to one another in readiness to move to a final location. The clue was in the sizes quoted then?
Still, another thing learned, thanks
Just a quick question (or two). If they are both virgins, wouldn't it be possible for them to slip through the QE as they could be thin due the ovaries not being enlarged at this point in time? Would one not try to 'escape' or is the urge to kill the rival so strong they would stay to produce one winner? Might seem a beginners question, but just wondered

 

[eddyh]

quick update,i went down the field just before dark and put the two swarms into separate nucsand left them under the tree where i found them.I could not wait until the morning as it looks like rain is on its way,so hopefully its all sorted.

 

[jonnybeegood]

quick update,i went down the field just before dark and put the two swarms into separate nucsand left them under the tree where i found them.I could not wait until the morning as it looks like rain is on its way,so hopefully its all sorted.

Excellent! Well done, glad you got them Before Dark

 

[itma]

...
Just a quick question (or two). If they are both virgins, wouldn't it be possible for them to slip through the QE as they could be thin due the ovaries not being enlarged at this point in time? Would one not try to 'escape' or is the urge to kill the rival so strong they would stay to produce one winner? Might seem a beginners question, but just wondered

If Q can fly, she should have a fully-developed thorax (where the flight muscles are).
It is the size of the thorax that prevents her passing through a QX.

The idea presented was to let the 2 Qs fight it out. The bees may fight as well. Chucking three or more colonies/swarms in together (plus icing sugar, flour, smoke, room freshener, etc ... take your choice or use none) is supposed to produce such confusion that the bees don't fight. But surplus Qs will. Or else depart with some bees - hence the QX underneath.

Personally, if there are two nucs available, I'd box them separately and retain all the resources for examination and exploitation. If its one swarm that has split, they would be expected to choose to combine themselves when they get the chance. Otherwise one can then take some time to decide the best way forward in the light of your own particular circumstances.

 

[midnight sun]

If Q can fly, she should have a fully-developed thorax (where the flight muscles are).
It is the size of the thorax that prevents her passing through a QX.

The idea presented was to let the 2 Qs fight it out. The bees may fight as well. Chucking three or more colonies/swarms in together (plus icing sugar, flour, smoke, room freshener, etc ... take your choice or use none) is supposed to produce such confusion that the bees don't fight. But surplus Qs will. Or else depart with some bees - hence the QX underneath.

Personally, if there are two nucs available, I'd box them separately and retain all the resources for examination and exploitation. If its one swarm that has split, they would be expected to choose to combine themselves when they get the chance. Otherwise one can then take some time to decide the best way forward in the light of your own particular circumstances.

Thanks Itma for that full answer. Clear now.

 

[eddyh]

Thanks for that bit of info,i have now put my two swarms in nucs.one does seem a little small and when the weather improves i will have a look through it for the queen and maybe combine with the larger one of the two.