Swarms and varroa treatment (OA sublimation)

[sussexbaker]

Hi all

I've read a few threads about treating swarms for varroa, but I wondered if people had used OA sublimation to do so? As it seems to have so little impact on colonies during winter I thought it'd be fine to treat a newly housed swarm with it. Has anyone done so? I've seen a reference to it on one website where they suggest .5g of OA crystals for a swarm.

Thanks

Norman

 

[For want of a better word]

Last season I sublimated using the trusty Varrox Vaporiser with 2g for a full swarm.
In a standard National brood with an open mesh floor + a queen excluder on the floor fitted
( to prevent queen absconding)


I** also treated with Apiguard in the Autumn followed by a Thymolated sugar feed.

Still buzzing over the weekend when I hefted, rapped and listened!

 

[domino]

How heavily infested would a swarm be, given mites like living in broad?

 

[For want of a better word]

How heavily infested would a swarm be, given mites like living in broad?

In an ideal world a swarm will be carrying a small number of phoretic mites, and as these could be knocked down before comb building and brood making get underway most of the mites could be eradicated.

I have in past years carried out a shook swarm and vaporised with OA immediately..... a beekeeping acquaintance did this with formic / MAQS and had something of a disastrous result when the shook swarm absconded!

 

[einsteinagogo]

In an ideal world a swarm will be carrying a small number of phoretic mites, and as these could be knocked down before comb building and brood making get underway most of the mites could be eradicated.

I have in past years carried out a shook swarm and vaporised with OA immediately..... a beekeeping acquaintance did this with formic / MAQS and had something of a disastrous result when the shook swarm absconded!

I treated with MAQS last year in August, and a colony absconded! (it was not a swarm, they left stores and brood).

All my other colonies treated with MAQS in the same way, and they did not re-act this way!

Just goes to show, not all colonies are the equal..

 

[For want of a better word]

Never had an absconding scenario with Vaporising OA....


but then bees do things invariably!

 

[itma]

In an ideal world a swarm will be carrying a small number of phoretic mites, and as these could be knocked down before comb building and brood making get underway most of the mites could be eradicated.

I have in past years carried out a shook swarm and vaporised with OA immediately..... a beekeeping acquaintance did this with formic / MAQS and had something of a disastrous result when the shook swarm absconded!

I recall that Bob Smith NDB (an unshakable advocate of a Shook Swarm for almost everything) did a careful varroa count to show how effective the Shook Swarm was for varroa control.
He actually got more mites from the 'swarm' than he found in the brood cells left behind! (Hasn't put him off though...)

The time to Oxalic treat (vapour or trickle) a swarm would be before they have any sealed brood, but after they have 'moved in' and invested their travelling stores in wax production.

However, because (uniquely) Formic Acid (as in MAQS) kills varroa even inside sealed brood cells, there is no criticality in timing - and certainly no rush to treat if using MAQS.

 

[Heather]

Is there some evidence that MAQS harms queen fecundity.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Never had an absconding scenario with Vaporising OA....


but then bees do things invariably!

it was a MAQS treatment!

 

[domino]

Is there some evidence that MAQS harms queen fecundity.

Is there a source for that, I'd like to read up on it as I'm thinking about what treatments to use this year and MAQS is on that list.

 

[snelgrove]

I used maqs with success, but the colony must be of a decent size on at least 6 frames of brood. I learned this the hard way, I treated a small colony and the queen was found dead on the cover board !

 

[La Folie]

I have read quite a bit about the effects of MAQS and, on occasion, a colony abscond or 'moves out' temperarily during the initial application of MAQS. However, not seen anything about queen fecundity. I would like to find that reference.

 

[einsteinagogo]

I have read quite a bit about the effects of MAQS and, on occasion, a colony abscond or 'moves out' temperarily during the initial application of MAQS. However, not seen anything about queen fecundity. I would like to find that reference.

well mine, certainly sodded off!

I've done MAQS for two seasons now, and I think this year I will switch to Apiguard, especially, with two colonies, it certainly did not seem to work well on!

I'll have to think, and look at the calendar, and plan ahead, for August 2015 or earlier.

 

[pargyle]

Best google search is using the phrase 'MAQS Queen Loss' ... throws up lots of information including the FERA Product Information released in May last year when the product got its formal approval. Loads about brood, egg and queen loss if the conditions for treatment are less than ideal or colonies are small - absconding seems to be associated with either too warm conditions or disturbing the hive in the days before treatment.

I had a good look around MAQS last year as it seemed, initially, to be a magic bullet but the experience of some of those across the pond who have been using it a bit longer rather put me off .. although it is just formic acid. Only reference I found to queen fecundity was a comment that surviving queens were often put off laying for several days after treatment and when eggs were laid they tended to be in cells well away from the treatment strips.

Having said that I know a number of beekeepers who have used MAQS without any serious problems and report exceptional varroa kills. Pays yer money and ....your choice.

 

[Finman]

.
Formic acid becomes harmfull to queens when day temp rises over 25C.
In 20C no queen losses happen.

 

[Heather]

Well that's an interesting point, Finman. Thanks. We had hot weather last year, so may have been the relevant factor I wasn't aware of.
Chatting with P....s they did advise OA as preference.

 

[domino]

I'm a fan of Randy Oliver's site because he does some really nice studies - this is his MAQS write up - http://scientificbeekeeping.com/an-early-summer-test-of-mite-away-quick-strips/

 

[For want of a better word]

I recall that Bob Smith NDB (an unshakable advocate of a Shook Swarm for almost everything) did a careful varroa count to show how effective the Shook Swarm was for varroa control.
He actually got more mites from the 'swarm' than he found in the brood cells left behind! (Hasn't put him off though...)

The time to Oxalic treat (vapour or trickle) a swarm would be before they have any sealed brood, but after they have 'moved in' and invested their travelling stores in wax production.

However, because (uniquely) Formic Acid (as in MAQS) kills varroa even inside sealed brood cells, there is no criticality in timing - and certainly no rush to treat if using MAQS.

Would not a treatment with vaporised OA following a shook swarm onto new foundation not knock down the phoretic mites?
No place for the mite to hide as no brood yet produced???

This was the exact question from a "Beginner beekeeper" a couple of years back, so I therefore think this is OK to discuss in the "Beginners section"!


Any thoughts?

 

[domino]

Would not a treatment with vaporised OA following a shook swarm onto new foundation not knock down the phoretic mites?
No place for the mite to hide as no brood yet produced???

This was the exact question from a "Beginner beekeeper" a couple of years back, so I therefore think this is OK to discuss in the "Beginners section"!


Any thoughts?

I plan on keeping back a frame of eggs and put it in the hive after the shook swarm those mites will make there way into the cells and you can yank the frame once the cells are capped.

 

[masterBK]

How heavily infested would a swarm be, given mites like living in brood?
---------------------------------------------------------------
A few years ago I treated all swarms I collected from my town with oxalic dribble (administered about a week after collection) and counted the drop and found most had counts between 80 and 120 mites. However the last two years most swarms collected dropped less than 20 mites after oxalic acid treatment. My own swarms ( despite everything I do I still get 2 or 3 swarms in total from 28 colonies) had less than 6 mites. Suggests beekeepers in my area are mastering mite control even if they are not preventing swarming!.