Sources of imported queens

[Jimmy]

Looking at Beebase's data on queen/package/nuc imports for 2014 and thinking about the implications of the ban on queens from Sicily/Calabria, why aren't there more imports from Spain/Portugal? http://http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/public/BeeDiseases/euImportReport.cfm?year=2014
Presumably the Iberian beekeeping year starts in advance of the UK so they would be at an advantage when it came to supplying early mated queens for the UK spring?

 

[Little John]

Presumably the Iberian beekeeping year starts in advance of the UK so they would be at an advantage when it came to supplying early mated queens for the UK spring?

If you want the earliest possible mated queens - then over-winter them here in the UK. Then there would be no need for imports from anywhere ...

LJ

 

[Hivemaker.]

If you want the earliest possible mated queens - then over-winter them here in the UK.

It is a good idea, but very very few are able to do this.

 

[Arfermo]

It is a good idea, but very very few are able to do this.

We don't need imports anyway. We have enough trouble without them.

 

[Red Bee]

It is a good idea, but very very few are able to do this.

Why is this, do they think it is too much work or?

 

[Apple]

Why is this, do they think it is too much work or?

Ingrained by BBKA in courses and books such as their Basic Study Notes, where messrs Yates rubbishes our Native bees and recommends requeening with presumably imported foreign queen bees in the Spring. As explained that crosses produce vicious bees that can not be handled without grove and veil.

10 nucs of my own Native local bees overwintering happily at this very moment, they were out in the sunshine this afternoon on the Mahonia.
Must read the BBKA Basic book to them, do they not know they should be in a tight cluster from now until the Spring?

James

 

[Hivemaker.]

Why is this, do they think it is too much work or?

I really don't know, have showed plenty of people, i even do the occasional talk and apiary meeting about queen rearing, the whole process from production of the queens and how to easily over winter them in mini nucs, how to be a bit more self sufficient, and have spare queens in spring, people seem very interested and enthusiastic at the time...then they seem to go away and do absolutely nothing, so it is mostly a waste of time.

 

[Little John]

I really don't know, have showed plenty of people, i even do the occasional talk and apiary meeting about queen rearing, the whole process from production of the queens and how to easily over winter them in mini nucs, how to be a bit more self sufficient, and have spare queens in spring, people seem very interested and enthusiastic at the time...then they seem to go away and do absolutely nothing, so it is mostly a waste of time.

There's a phenomenon which is often called "capturing someone's imagination", but which I tend to think as someone selling themselves an idea - which always seems like a good idea at the time - but without them holding that passion and commitment which is necessary to see that idea through 'come hell or high water'.

I used to see this immediately after the London Marathon - when seriously overweight people would don tracksuits and take to the streets jogging - but only a week or two would elapse before their initial enthusiasm fizzled out.

So - I'd say that it's necessary for beekeepers to really WANT to do this, rather than thinking "hey, that's a good idea, must have a go at that sometime ..."

LJ

 

[protheroe]

i have been bringing small batches of queens through winter the last couple of years but need to get more kielers or make larger mini nucs.the ones i use for summer matings are way too small.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I really don't know, have showed plenty of people,

Same here HM. I even got a $14,000 grant to teach queen rearing. Two year program. The 10 participants got nucs and bees and mating nucs and bees and breeder queens from Glenn Apiaries. The goal was to produce 5000 queen a year by 2015.

Four years after the grant was finished, I would say almost none are raising queens in any significant number.

I can't figure it. I know I can raise 1000+ queen during the season. At $30@, the income isn't too bad. You'd think more would take it up. The demand for good northern stock in unlimited. I would think the same for you all now, with SHB in Italy.

 

[Little John]

It might be interesting to enquire of such people - as long as it could be done in such a way as to not 'put them on the spot' - why, having shown such initial enthusiasm, they chose not to proceed with the over-wintering of queens & nucs. That may be the only way to solve this riddle.

Personally, I think it's a very sound idea, and I'm currently gearing up to make a start next season. My only slight concern is whether the nucs will sell ok. Queens can be posted easily enough, but one-off nucs will need to be collected - so that will limit the catchment area for sales. Although I guess orders for multiple nucs could always be delivered to a much wider area.

LJ

 

[Goran]

When talk to novice, it should be told to them - the best queen is the one you produce, I would add to that - with learned knowledge..
Many here just squash old queen when chalk brood or some failure occur ( and repeated squashing make them routinelly good qrearers), or do nothing and have bunch of swarmy queens. And I got at the end question - why do you need at all third box on your hives - that questions I got from "beeks" with more than 100 hives.. That is also reason why I avoid to visit other apiaries, mostly I visit only from my mentor. Such things accumulate and accelerate my leaving from active beekeeping - I don't want to fight windmills when I am blessed with such surrounding..
I use cloake board, with or without jenter. I am self-sufficient for queens. The spares I share with few beeks. For a price of 10 euros for a queen of licensed queen rearer, my should be lot cheaper - no reason that I should increase qrearing..

 

[farbee]

The main thing that makes me hesitate is the unknown of what the queens will mate with as I live in a semi urban setting with goodness knows how many hives with mating area. Will I end up breeding monsters?

 

[Little John]

The main thing that makes me hesitate is the unknown of what the queens will mate with as I live in a semi urban setting with goodness knows how many hives with mating area. Will I end up breeding monsters?

A very good point indeed. It's so easy for those of us who live in open countryside with acreages to work with, to forget that many - perhaps the vast majority - of beekeepers are living in urban or suburban areas, with neighbours to consider, relatively small areas of ground for apiaries, and a much higher density of beekeepers in close proximity than we experience.

Likewise, 'breeding from your best' requires a fairly large number of colonies to choose from, if that expression is to have any meaning. It's one thing to select from within a handful of colonies for your own use, or to give to mates - but if selling to others on a commercial basis, then I think it is incumbent upon the vendor to have chosen breeding stock from a much wider range - from a couple of dozen colonies at the very minimum, and to have retained a good proportion of reared queens for ongoing assessment. Which means even more boxes, and land to put them on ...

Just those two issues alone could account for people being initially fired-up with enthusiasm - until the realities of queen production (other than for their own use) begin to dawn on them.

LJ

 

[Jed D]

If you want the earliest possible mated queens - then over-winter them here in the UK. Then there would be no need for imports from anywhere ...

LJ

I'm with this option....... Yes , space could be an issue for some of us ' but most colonies will want to swarm at some point in the year , so why not put them in another box ????
This has got to be better than keep nipping Queens out !!!!
If we want more bees , let our native bees do what comes naturally !!

We've split 6 Nucs from our 6 best colonies , all looking good for next year.
Why would I import anything ????

To take this further , If we all done this in the uk !!!!
Why would anyone import Bees ?????

I seem to remember lots of people saying " buy your Nuc locally "

 

[Pete D]

I think buying local is the way to go, but what's local 20 miles, 50 miles ?

I was astonished to find out that some bigger nuc suppliers just buy in queens as cheap as possible, harvest bees out of their colonies to make up nucs and sell them for huge prices. I was naive to think they bred their own queens.

Foreign queen £20, 5 frames inc wax £7.50, 10lb sugar £5, 2 hours work £? And knock them out for £150+.

By buying local you have more chance of knowing the seller or at least of the seller. Trouble is that if I was offered a nuc in late April or early May with the current years queen I would smell an import. Simply do the sums compared with the local conditions, weather and my own hives, how did the seller get a mated queen and brood in all stages, for that to happen it must of all started at least 5 weeks ago..........
Trouble is many new and keen beginners would buy one as they wouldn't know any different.

Whilst imported queens offer a chance to make a quick buck it won't stop.

Personally I have been doing this for long enough now that this season I am going to start rearing more of my own queens from my preferred hives. I did some this year but hope to have more time in 2015 and will embark on a 3-5 year programme to requeen all my stocks regularly with my own queens.
Any swarms collected will be either requeened at the end of the season or combined to existing stocks.

Right time to get on, got a full day today visiting my apiaries and dropping a few jars off to the landowners.

 

[Jimmy]

£20 for an imported queen? I think some Greek and Sicilian breeders could do better than that. If you want 1000+, Batsis quote 11euros, can't see p+p taking that to £20.
There was an interesting post by ITLD on Sbai about scale/volume/costs of S. European queen breeders, worth a look.

 

[Pete D]

£20 was just an example not an exact quote, same as the frame price and the retail price of a nuc.
I was just trying to demonstrate the big mark up and therefore the attraction to buy and sell, lower cost prices just reinforces it.

 

[mbc]

I think buying local is the way to go, but what's local 20 miles, 50 miles ?

I was astonished to find out that some bigger nuc suppliers just buy in queens as cheap as possible, harvest bees out of their colonies to make up nucs and sell them for huge prices. I was naive to think they bred their own queens.

Foreign queen £20, 5 frames inc wax £7.50, 10lb sugar £5, 2 hours work £? And knock them out for £150+.

By buying local you have more chance of knowing the seller or at least of the seller. Trouble is that if I was offered a nuc in late April or early May with the current years queen I would smell an import. Simply do the sums compared with the local conditions, weather and my own hives, how did the seller get a mated queen and brood in all stages, for that to happen it must of all started at least 5 weeks ago..........
Trouble is many new and keen beginners would buy one as they wouldn't know any different.

Whilst imported queens offer a chance to make a quick buck it won't stop.

Personally I have been doing this for long enough now that this season I am going to start rearing more of my own queens from my preferred hives. I did some this year but hope to have more time in 2015 and will embark on a 3-5 year programme to requeen all my stocks regularly with my own queens.
Any swarms collected will be either requeened at the end of the season or combined to existing stocks.

Right time to get on, got a full day today visiting my apiaries and dropping a few jars off to the landowners.

This is exactly the business model we are asked to protect by those who wish to continue to allow imports.
Some of the biggest firms offer this sort of nuc at over £200 a piece, it is profitable.

 

[Jed D]

Perhaps this is the problem.....

Its not really about the Bees , its about the profit....

When we have killed the last animal and polluted the last river.
Then man will realise ,he can't eat money.