shook swarm bees into TBH

[rickyd20]

I am going to start a TBH this year, and was considering doing a shook swarm to start the hive.
I have never done this before, but every source I have found has stated that the two hives must be swapped so the field bees use the new hive.
The problem with this is that I would rather the TBH was situated elsewhere. I just wanted to check that it would be Ok to just shake extra bees into the new hive to make up for bees flying back to the original hive.
I have 4 hives already so I guess I could shake a few frames from each? I heard that if you shake bees from three hives or more, they will not fight with each other.

Would this work, or would it be better to just transfer comb over? I understand there is a risk of them absconding.

Thanks

 

[JEP]

Yes it will work fine. Just make sure you don't shake in any additional queens. If you nail some excluder over the entrance it will stop any chance of absconding - just remember to remove it after about a week to let any drones get out and stop it knocking pollen loads off. Also remember to feed plenty of syrup - shaken bees won't have had the chance to fill up like a natural swarm would.

 

[Little John]

Shook swarm would work ok - or alternatively you could chequer-board several TBH top-bars between your existing frames, and then do a 50/50 split when those top bars have been drawn out and filled with larva. That way you avoid any prospect of absconding, plus give the girls an opportunity to make their own new queen 'on site' - unless you have other plans for providing a queen, of course.

If you were to do adopt this method, you'd need to make a rim to fit under the crown board to accomodate the height of the thicker TBH top-bars.

Have you thought about how you're going to feed in the TBH ? As it's not the most straightforward of hives for supplementary feeding.

LJ

 

[itma]

...
The problem with this is that I would rather the TBH was situated elsewhere. ...

Why not move the existing hive to the TBH site?

Cold winter weather is a good time to (very gently) move a hive to a different location in the apiary.
Otherwise you could 'step' it 3 feet or so at a time once the bees are flying in Spring. (You can move it further than 3 feet if it is directly backwards - away from the entrance - and remains in plain view from the previous stop.)

 

[BeeJayBee]

I am going to start a TBH this year, and was considering doing a shook swarm to start the hive.
I have never done this before, but every source I have found has stated that the two hives must be swapped so the field bees use the new hive.

I think you could probably do with re-reading how to do a shook swarm, because it's basically shaking all a colony's bees onto new frames in a clean or new brood box on the current site. There is no swapping or balancing involved because the old hive (box etc) are removed.

A shook swarm may be done if a colony has EFB, or if the beekeeper merely wants to replace all frames at the same time. I know some beekeepers who do this every Spring, whilst I know others who wouldn't dream of doing a shook swarm except in an EFB emergency because they believe it destroys chances of a decent honey crop.

A shook swarm is a perfectly valid way of moving bees from one type of hive to another. Bear in mind, though, that you do need to feed the colony a light syrup, because they will be building a lot of wax.

The NBU leaflet is here www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=203

A page on Dave Cushman's site here http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/shookswarm.html

When I do shook swarms I make sure the two boxes are touching each other, it lessens the chances of the youngest bees falling to the ground.

If you move the current hive to the new site a couple of days before you plan to do the shook swarm you shouldn't have any bees returning to the old site - provided it's more than 3 miles away. (Oops! Shouldn't have gone to make a coffee in the middle of replying because itma has now said basically the same about moving the hive/colony.)

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Why not forget the idea of a shook swarm from your framed hives. Just place the empty TBH where you want it and populate with a natural swarm. Its by far the easiest way to start a TBH.

 

[oliver90owner]

Much in agreement with BJ.

Except I might just think I've got time to make up a couple frames that would fit to the top bars in the TBH.

These could be placed into a hive a while before basically doing a split, not a shook swarm, per se. The surplus wild comb from the couple frames could be lost, lots of bees added, colony fed. Needs to be done with a queen cell from a strong hive (I don't like walk-away splits) fitted in there somewhere, IMO. Bees drawing wax and/or in a cavern and not such a strong colony are likely not the best for making good queen cells.

You have about 5 months, maybe more, to work out the best option - as getting any new queen successfully mated may be one important consideration.

 

[REDWOOD]

I would populate the TBH with a swarm, It seems a more natural way of doing it. A shook swarm is put onto fresh foundation not starter strips.

 

[Little John]

Yet another way ....

Make up a handful of new frames, but ensure that the side-to-topbar joints are a 'sloppy' fit. Secure them with a single panel-pin running horizontally across each joint, having drilled a hole for them beforehand such that each pin becomes a push-fit. Imo, a starter-strip would be better here than using a full sheet of foundation.

When the time comes for the transfer, (if necessary) run a knife along the inside of the side-pieces, pull the pins and trim the comb to fit if you've got a KTBH. No need for doing so otherwise.

When you're able to recover the frame topbars from the TBH, those frames can be restored to normal service by gluing the sloppy joints. That's assuming that they've not been propolised in that region, of course.

This would be far less barbaric that the 'crop-and-chop' method advocated by a cetain 'barefooted' beekeeper ...

LJ

 

[rickyd20]

Thank you everyone for the advice. This has given me plenty to consider.

Feeding should not be a problem, I have seen some feeders which are built into the division board so I'm sure I can build something similar quite easily.

The reason I don't want to have the donor hive in the TBH position is that it looks like a beehive, and can be seen from the street. The TBH looks more like a bird feeder and so should not draw any attention.

I like the idea of placing the top bars into the hive, and have them build it up. Much less risk, and I suppose I could spread 5-6 frames between my 4 hives, which would mean the TBH would have a much stronger start, and not weaken one of my current hives too much.