Right/wrong with society

[greatbritishhoney]

Have heard some interesting discussion about this story today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-15248021

So, does this case highlight everything that is wrong with society - i.e - suppression of talent, inflexibility etc, or does it highlight everything that is wrong with the youth of today - i.e - putting financial gain above playing by the rules, no respect for authority etc.

Discuss

 

[victor meldrew]

Have heard some interesting discussion about this story today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-15248021

So, does this case highlight everything that is wrong with society - i.e - suppression of talent, inflexibility etc, or does it highlight everything that is wrong with the youth of today - i.e - putting financial gain above playing by the rules, no respect for authority etc.

Discuss

Don't know about that
The lad was clearly flouting school rules !
Suppression talent? NO!
Inflexibility? NO!
Financial gain is the new morality !
What started as a system of tokens To make bartering among relatively small groups of people more flexible .IE I've cut a load of timber for you in exchange for X number of eggs , which I can't consume before they're bad, there fore I'll accept a token allowing my payment in eggs to be taken over an extended period .
Now this has become global and the tokens (money ) are being bought and sold in milliseconds the concept has been truly lost and the tokens themselves have become 'GOD' !
Take the phrase 'Quantitative easing' you can make what you wish of this
In spite of all this the overwhelming majority of todays' youth do have a morality , you only have to look at the uniformed youth organisations , often the only outlet todays youth have to cater for their spirit of adventure and form meaningful bonds and friendships !
We may hanker for yesterdays' 'morality' but remember , when I was a boy poverty was worse than it is today and even one day out of the environment of deprivation was usually courtesy of one being allied to some church organisation or other ! . Bribery perhaps ? It worked, church and Sunday school were packed to the rafters , probation periods plus auditions were the requirement for entry into the church choir ! ( Choir membership entitled the chorister to the annual seaside 'Choir trip'.
The lad in question will do ok !
VM

 

[Arfermo]

I agree with VM - I hope the lad will go far. Reminds me of my 1950s exploits of scrumping apples on the way to school and then flogging them to the nits with no commercial sense in one of the top GS's in the UK. Supplemented my pocket money nicely thanks and no comebacks in those days either. PC rules today I'm afraid. Quite sad really.

 

[The Cumbrian]

I agree with VM - I hope the lad will go far. Reminds me of my 1950s exploits of scrumping apples on the way to school and then flogging them to the nits with no commercial sense in one of the top GS's in the UK. Supplemented my pocket money nicely thanks and no comebacks in those days either. PC rules today I'm afraid. Quite sad really.

I am afraid I can't agree. Firstly having suffered "scrumping" I call it theft. It is on a par with the cases mentioned where frames of honey have been removed from hives. Strange it is theft then but not when it is somebody else's apples.

Having had experience of children in schools there is also a big risk of profiteering, bullying and theft growing out of such seemingly laudable activity. I would expect any responsible school to clamp down on this.

There are plenty of times and places outside school where he could develop business skills.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

The thing I find most interesting about it is that some people will use the phrase "the next Richard Branson" to describe this lad but would equally condemn the same kind of behaviour when it applies to the banking world (putting the making of money ahead of the rules and ahead of the well-being of others).
Part of the problem seems to be that we (or more rightly the media) seem intent on polarising every argument to the extent that the real meaning is lost.
Interesting point, VM, about church / sunday school. Was it the moral code that the church laid down that we are missing in society, or is it just that we no longer have any such institutions that help hold a community together?

 

[Arfermo]

I am afraid I can't agree. Firstly having suffered "scrumping" I call it theft. It is on a par with the cases mentioned where frames of honey have been removed from hives. Strange it is theft then but not when it is somebody else's apples.

Having had experience of children in schools there is also a big risk of profiteering, bullying and theft growing out of such seemingly laudable activity. I would expect any responsible school to clamp down on this.

There are plenty of times and places outside school where he could develop business skills.

I tend to agree but in my defence, the trees were on a piece of what looked very much like waste ground and would probably not have been harvested anyway.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I think we tend to be too hard on kids today. There are plenty of things I did as a kid that would have earned me an ASBO today if I had have been caught.
I think this "golden age" when all children were angels probably never existed.

 

[drstitson]

Of course Richard Branson made his first big break in commerce (before Tubular bells) by exploiting the well known VAT export/reimport scam, defrauding HM Customs and Excise and thus the Exchequer.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Of course Richard Branson made his first big break in commerce (before Tubular bells) by exploiting the well known VAT export/reimport scam, defrauding HM Customs and Excise and thus the Exchequer.

Really? I never knew that.
I guess you have to be fairly ruthless to get to the top. Branson gets away with it cos he doesn't look like the stereotypical boardroom tyrant.

 

[jakethedog]

Really? I never knew that.
I guess you have to be fairly ruthless to get to the top. Branson gets away with it cos he doesn't look like the stereotypical boardroom tyrant.

point is, he didn't get away with it and was heavily fined. interestingly, he later stated (in Screw it, lets do it -lessons in life) that being caught was pivitol in the way he now approaches business.

 

[drstitson]

Yep - 1971 prosecution - parents bailed him out.

started shipping actual records to europe then once realised there were no checks just shipped empty sleeves.

 

[tonybloke]

I think we tend to be too hard on kids today. There are plenty of things I did as a kid that would have earned me an ASBO today if I had have been caught.
I think this "golden age" when all children were angels probably never existed.

it weren't just me, then!! LOL

 

[victor meldrew]

it weren't just me, then!! LOL

During the black-out, we took perverse delight in placing dog droppings on the drop latches of some old cottages near us . We would then drop a drawing pin point upwards into this mess and retire to the ditch opposite to await the return of the occupant . On arrival the poor sod (in total darkness) would press the latch and on feeling the pain of being stabbed by the pin would immediately stick his/her thumb into his/her mouth. Listening to the gagging and swearing suited our lavatorial sense of humour ???
VM

 

[greatbritishhoney]

During the black-out, we took perverse delight in placing dog droppings on the drop latches of some old cottages near us . We would then drop a drawing pin point upwards into this mess and retire to the ditch opposite to await the return of the occupant . On arrival the poor sod (in total darkness) would press the latch and on feeling the pain of being stabbed by the pin would immediately stick his/her thumb into his/her mouth. Listening to the gagging and swearing suited our lavatorial sense of humour ???
VM

I am shocked beyond belief VM!

 

[Headnavigator]

During the black-out, we took perverse delight in placing dog droppings on the drop latches of some old cottages near us . We would then drop a drawing pin point upwards into this mess and retire to the ditch opposite to await the return of the occupant . On arrival the poor sod (in total darkness) would press the latch and on feeling the pain of being stabbed by the pin would immediately stick his/her thumb into his/her mouth. Listening to the gagging and swearing suited our lavatorial sense of humour ???
VM

I suppose you've repented and now make reparation by painting people's door latches with honey?

 

[victor meldrew]

I suppose you've repented and now make reparation by painting people's door latches with honey?

Alas, the beautiful studded oak doors were 'flushed' with hardboard and beading in the fifties and latterly replaced by plastic crap
This row of cottages had two nick names 'School row' and D'or mat row'.
The former because in the 19th century the coal mining company who were the then owners gave the end two, to be used as a school as there appeared to be a high level of illiteracy amongst the village children .
The latter because the occupants all sported cocoanut fibre door mats outside their properties !
This was another source of merriment for us little angels . We would thread a rope through the door handles , tie it off, gather and shuffle the door mats , stack them at one end , kick the doors and run off to hide .
After the peeps freed themselves the real fun started, witnessing the cat fight as each lady claimed the newest in ascending order to be theirs
VM

 

[hedgerow pete]

hedgerow hear and on his daily mail soap box, lol

I am and always will be a child of thatcher, sorry but its true, strong leadership comands a strong following even if its off the edge of a cliff!!

i see two main problems with todays world, one is me, and my views on modern blighty, i see curouption every where in the news and in the banks that rule the worlds and i cant stop it, this also covers polititions too, i would like to see a very strong policy and leader in charge , i dont care which party as they are both as bad as each other.

secondly i also see in the younger youth, stupid government job training programes that tie them up untill they are 18 years old trained and jobless , because all these trainies have no jobs at the end of there courses, so they do get the mentality ( some not all) if i can not have it i will take it from others. the rest of the poor sods like me just try to make a living one day at a time. bowing to the pressures from above.

out of intrest , i am starting to see in a lot of the areas where i am there is a new sort of commercial world going on, an expansion of the letts system and freegle ways where people are starting to interact between each other and missing out government and bankers. there is only one real down side to it at the moment that is freegly brum is just to massive and far far to full of greedy people. it needs to be broken down to smaller areas and made more manageable for people to use.

so soap box away, bugger did i forget to mention bring back hanging and national service!!!!!

 

[victor meldrew]

At the inception of the ussr , the question was a fair distribution of assets 1
One suggestion was division of land amongst the population !
One objection was "If we give 100 acres of land plus a donkey to each citizen , within 10 years 90% of the land would be back in the hands 10% of the population .
Sounds about right
VM