Question about transfering bees .

[deanrpwaacs]

Quick question . I picked up another hive over the winter that came with a bs national brood q/e and super on top . It was from a very good local keeper . Very strong and heavy with stores . I wish to move them into 14 x 12 as that covers my other kit and hives . They are building up nicely . Q is shall i just place it on top of the 14 x 12 and keep an eye on them . My thinking is they will move down as they expand . Once they do and it warms up a bit ensure the queen is in the 14 x 12 then add an excluder . Also could/should i remove super when i put it onto the 14 x 12 or wait and monitor the flow if it happens .

 

[Brian Bush]

Put the 14X12 on top. Bees generally move upwards. It may be advisable to feed with syrup as they have to draw new comb. Some say drawing comb uses 15 times more energy than making honey.

 

[Poly Hive]

Always on top as the queens want to go up in the world. Or rather up in their world.

Same applies when using news paper to unite two units, put the Q+ on top as her foragers have more reason to break out and get supplies than the Q- part.

PH

 

[pargyle]

Just put the national frames into your 14 x 12 box when it's warm enough to transfer them, they will build additional comb on the bottom of the national frames but it's no big deal .. as the frames get older you can just take one out at the outside edge of the hive and add a 14 x 12 frame in at the edge of the brood nest - you won't lose any honey harvest that way and save your bees a lot of effort. I've done it... no problem. If there's a need for a super you can leave it on there - least disturbance the better IMO.

I have 14 x 12's and I don't use queen excluders - never seen any brood to mention in my supers - they usually have enough space in a 14 x 12 brood box not to worry about it .. and if you do get a bit of brood in there wait until it emerges and move the super up and put another one under it ... it would have to be a very prolific queen to lay up brood and a half in 14 x 12's.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just put the national frames into your 14 x 12 box when it's warm enough to transfer them, they will build additional comb on the bottom of the national frames but it's no big deal .. as the frames get older you can just take one out at the outside edge of the hive and add a 14 x 12 frame in at the edge of the brood nest - you won't lose any honey harvest that way and save your bees a lot of effort.

And this is the best time of the year to do it - some of the outer frames will be empty and unused now so you can swap them out straight away and work the rest out as the season goes on.

 

[Poly Hive]

It pays to note where people are when taking advice. As their climate may well be very different from yours.

Warm on the south coast is not so here in the East Mids and I for sure would not be pulling frames out yet.

PH

 

[pargyle]

It pays to note where people are when taking advice. As their climate may well be very different from yours.

Warm on the south coast is not so here in the East Mids and I for sure would not be pulling frames out yet.

PH

Completely agree .."when it's warm enough to transfer them" was what I said and I'm on the South Coast on the Costa del Fareham. I've not even lifted the crown boards on mine yet and it's not going to be any better this next week. We've just postponed our association apiary first inspection tomorrow as the forecast is 9 degrees and a 20mph wind - hardly ideal hive opening weather !

 

[BeeJayBee]

It pays to note where people are when taking advice. As their climate may well be very different from yours.

Warm on the south coast is not so here in the East Mids and I for sure would not be pulling frames out yet.

True - and OP is in Tonbridge, Kent, which is probably warmer than the East Midlands.

There's no reason why OP (deanrpwaacs) shouldn't simply transfer the frames into a 14x12 on a warm enough day and then let the bees get on with it, it'll only take five minutes. Add some new frames to the outside, to get them started on those.

The colony will instantly have more space and will start building comb beneath their old frames whilst at the same time drawing out the new ones, so they'll have something to do when they're confined inside by the weather.

 

[Poly Hive]

Woke up this morning to hard frost. Car windows are being scraped.

Take your time people the weather is not yet kind enough to be doing massive manipulations.

Please put the bees before your ambitions honed by winter reading.

PH

 

[JWF]

True - and OP is in Tonbridge, Kent, which is probably warmer than the East Midlands.

There's no reason why OP (deanrpwaacs) shouldn't simply transfer the frames into a 14x12 on a warm enough day and then let the bees get on with it, it'll only take five minutes. Add some new frames to the outside, to get them started on those.

The colony will instantly have more space and will start building comb beneath their old frames whilst at the same time drawing out the new ones, so they'll have something to do when they're confined inside by the weather.

Just make sure crownboard fits well as it's a bit cold for the bees to block up the holes with propolis and it's a job they're better off not doing if they don't have to. That's one of the reasons I think that winter Oxalic trickling can have a big negative impact.

 

[Poly Hive]

There was an experiment done at Craibstone Aberdeenshire, to assess the maximum colony size for over wintering and they were opened weekly through the Winter and as far as I know they were fine. Or at least the optimised ones were.

Oddly one thing came out of it as Jeffreys combined three colonies into one for the experiment, and also doubles, as in two into one, and they failed. The too week ones failed as per normal. So too strong is no good nor is too week so unsurprising the normal colony did best. Too strong got too hot it seems.

PH

 

[deanrpwaacs]

It pays to note where people are when taking advice. As their climate may well be very different from yours.

Warm on the south coast is not so here in the East Mids and I for sure would not be pulling frames out yet.

PH

This is the reason i am unsure about putting it above . They will have a huge space above . Other way round and they keep warm and move down when ready to expand . Certainly dont want to end up with lots of wax built off the bottom of frames ect . If/when they move down . Add excluder . Then brood above will emerge leaving the national as a super that can then be extracted at a later date ?

 

[pargyle]

This is the reason i am unsure about putting it above . They will have a huge space above . Other way round and they keep warm and move down when ready to expand . Certainly dont want to end up with lots of wax built off the bottom of frames ect . If/when they move down . Add excluder . Then brood above will emerge leaving the national as a super that can then be extracted at a later date ?

Why ? It's no big deal .. they just build comb on the bottom of the frames and use it ... Just moving the existing frames into a 14 x 12 is by far the most economic way and certainly the least effort for the bees ... You seem intent on ignoring the obvious in favour of a course of action you have set your mind on ?

 

[Poly Hive]

One does not add space until the bees are ready for it.

If say they are on three or four frames of brood in the current box then obviously you do NOTHING.

However when they are on 8 to ten frames then YES you can.

Also please note queens like to go up. They are NOT keen on abseiling.

My advice your choice.

However I KNOW which the bees prefer. Why make mistakes which are avoidable which surely is the reason this forum exists.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why ? It's no big deal .. they just build comb on the bottom of the frames and use it ... Just moving the existing frames into a 14 x 12 is by far the most economic way and certainly the least effort for the bees ... You seem intent on ignoring the obvious in favour of a course of action you have set your mind on ?

..to all of that. them extending the frames downwards is no big deal - some people do it all the time with shallow frames in the brood in their quest to reduce the drone population and their availability for queen mating.
I had a hive at the assiciation apiary a few years ago (a 'rescue' job) which ended up with five shallow frames - no mes, no fuss and just a little more care needed during inspections.

 

[deanrpwaacs]

Thank you gents . I will take the advice on board . Still early days yet to even inspect but once the time comes i will let them move on up .

 

[pargyle]

Quick question . I picked up another hive over the winter that came with a bs national brood q/e and super on top . It was from a very good local keeper . Very strong and heavy with stores . I wish to move them into 14 x 12 as that covers my other kit and hives . They are building up nicely . Q is shall i just place it on top of the 14 x 12 and keep an eye on them . My thinking is they will move down as they expand . Once they do and it warms up a bit ensure the queen is in the 14 x 12 then add an excluder . Also could/should i remove super when i put it onto the 14 x 12 or wait and monitor the flow if it happens .

Thank you gents . I will take the advice on board . Still early days yet to even inspect but once the time comes i will let them move on up .

???????? Not sure you have ....