Queen Breeding Pedigree

[REDWOOD]

The more I read.. the less I know.. " Ignorance is bliss."
Thanx for your effort. Will have to reread much much slower..
Regards.

I know what you mean, I would love to get into all this but just don't have enough time in the day although I do take notes in case one day, who knows

 

[Finman]

.
I do not need pedigree breading because I do not use it.
. I am not ashamed or tonto if I do not know these pedigree things.

 

[B+.]

.
I do not need pedigree breading because I do not use it.
. I am not ashamed or tonto if I do not know these pedigree things.

There is no shame in doing whatever you can do. For a long time I struggled to find reliable information. Most of it was subjective and anecdotal. I post what I have learned to help others who, like me, want to learn more. I hope nobody takes this the wrong way. I am just trying to help

 

[Finman]

Tupla

 

[Finman]

There is no shame in doing whatever you can do. For a long time I struggled to find reliable information. Most of it was subjective and anecdotal. I post what I have learned to help others who, like me, want to learn more. I hope nobody takes this the wrong way. I am just trying to help

I answered to those who says "the more I read, the less I know.".

Like me, I know nothing about Windows programming.

About your job, it is a huge work.
.

 

[B+.]

I answered to those who says "the more I read, the less I know.".

Like me, I know nothing about Windows programming.

About your job, it is a huge work.
.

I know nothing about motor vehicle maintenance. Its just something I've never learned. I do have an aptitude for systems though and I've always been quite numerate. This sort of thing just appeals to me but it still hasn't come easy. I have sought out information for many years about how things work in other countries. This is the most informed and rational approach I have ever seen.
I have seen comments on this forum marvelling at the gentleness and productivity of the bees they have in Germany. Well, this didn't just happen. They worked at it for decades and they co-operated with others who thought the same. I owe a huge debt to people like Pim Brascamp and Tieme Wanders of the Dutch BeeBreed group. They have taught me a lot and shared knowledge that I would never have had access to any other way. I am just trying to pass some of it on.

 

[Finman]

.
To me evaluating pastures is the biggest challenge every year in beekeeping.

I am proud what I know about that issue. It is a basic of my big yields.
.
But like I have heard, if a beekeeper do not move his hives, he does not need that knowledge.
.

 

[Hivemaker.]

.
To me evaluating pastures is the biggest challenge every year in beekeeping.

Good bees and good pastures.

 

[B+.]

Good bees and good pastures.

Prof. Ruttner makes the distinction between economic value, which is a transient thing, and breeding value which is heritable (Breeding techniques and selection for breeding of the honeybee). He goes on to say "A performance that will not be inherited is without significance for the breeder. The essence of breeding is to transmit a certified, above average performance of individual animals to the greatest possible number of descendants, undiminished and as far as possible enhanced" (p. 8).
Although the pedigree is fundamental to the evaluation of breeding stock, it is the assessment of groups of sister queens, mated to drones from the same mother (or grandmother) that provides evidence for the calculation of breeding value estimates. This is what really makes good bees. It isn't subjective or anecdotal, It is rational and based on up to the minute scientific research

 

[Hivemaker.]

The essence of breeding is to transmit a certified, above average performance of individual animals to the greatest possible number of descendants, undiminished and as far as possible enhanced" (p. 8).

I hope you also get to that stage one day with your bees.

 

[B+.]

I hope you also get to that stage one day with your bees.

As I've explained before: I will never be satisfied no matter how good they are.

 

[wightbees]

Why does back crossing make good assessment ? I would of thought it was getting a stable trait. Just trying to understand what you have written?

 

[Hivemaker.]

As I've explained before: I will never be satisfied no matter how good they are.

So be it, I can understand you need to do more work on the productivity... on the other hand I'm very satisfied with how good my bees are.

 

[B+.]

So be it, I can understand you need to do more work on the productivity... on the other hand I'm very satisfied with how good my bees are.

Last year, my highest producing colony yielded just over 133Kg. This year it was just over 132Kg. I think most people would be happy with that.
My point is that, in a continuous improvement programme, you can never be satisfied. That is what I mean when I say I will never be satisfied. I will always look for improvements

 

[Hivemaker.]

Last year, my highest producing colony yielded just over 133Kg. This year it was just over 132Kg. I think most people would be happy with that.

Couple of colonies, your bees don't produce enough to make you self sufficient in wax for foundation though.

 

[B+.]

Why does back crossing make good assessment ? I would of thought it was getting a stable trait. Just trying to understand what you have written?

I haven't actually said anything about mating design systems, but, you can read all about this in Thomas Rinderers book (Bee genetics and breeding, chapter 13).
In a nutshell, you are right. It does reinforce a trait but you are also inbreeding which has a detrimental effect that you have to nullify by mating subsequently with unrelated stock. This can dilute any performance improvement because heritability of any trait is never 100%. If it was, every generation would be an improvement. It isn't. It is a continual challenge to find unrelated stock that improves the breeding values of he trait(s) you are trying to build upon.

 

[wightbees]

I have read, reread put the book down for two years and read again lol. Although by Eigil Holm . I find it fascinating but confusingly hard to understand

 

[B+.]

Couple of colonies, your bees don't produce enough to make you self sufficient in wax for foundation though.

You don't seem to understand how a breeding programme works. I am just one of many who test sister queens in different environments. I will be testing representative of 3 different lines from I.B. Celle, the Netherlands line (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3754) and the VSH line being developed by Arista bee research (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3761). How come I never see any of your tests or results?

As for my not being self-sufficient in wax. That's my choice. I choose to use it to make candles for my sons grave.

 

[Hivemaker.]

You don't seem to understand how a breeding programme works.

Enlighten me, being as you think I know nothing.

 

[B+.]

I have read, reread put the book down for two years and read again lol. Although by Eigil Holm . I find it fascinating but confusingly hard to understand

Stick with it. I found the early chapters very hard to follow too. If it helps, skip these altogether and read the Quantitative genetics bit (chapter 11) then go back and read Population genetics (chapter 9). These are much easier to visualize IMHO