Protein shortage

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But surely forecast has promised now to UK so warm weathers that bees get pollen to start again their brooding.
 
On sunny days all my colonies are bringing in pollen, but the couple that I have looked at had no pollen at all inside and most shocking of all, only eggs, no brood at all. My colonies are about 6 weeks behind. I have ordered more soya and brewers yeast as the forecast for May is wet.
 
On sunny days all my colonies are bringing in pollen, but the couple that I have looked at had no pollen at all inside and most shocking of all, only eggs, no brood at all. My colonies are about 6 weeks behind. I have ordered more soya and brewers yeast as the forecast for May is wet.

My point exactly. They are lucky if they have been able to forage 1 day a week recently; and that ain't enough.

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On sunny days all my colonies are bringing in pollen, but the couple that I have looked at had no pollen at all inside and most shocking of all, only eggs, no brood at all. My colonies are about 6 weeks behind. I have ordered more soya and brewers yeast as the forecast for May is wet.


Where do you order from?
 
- if you have low temperatures, foraging hours during day are fewer.
- if it is wind or calm, it is a big difference what bees can forage for example from oil rape or from willow.

I don't think you know the situation in parts of Britain at the moment. There is very little pollen about, so even if they can get out to forage there's virtually nothing there for them. The willows here are reluctant to flower, the early blossom has almost gone and the OSR won't be flowering for a while yet.
 
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But surely forecast has promised now to UK so warm weathers that bees get pollen to start again their brooding.

Warm? My BBC forecast for daily maxima is
today 10 & mist
Friday 9 & rain
Saturday 9 & rain
Sunday 14 and some sun
Monday 11 and some sun
and around 10 for next week.


It may seem tropical for Finland, but its very poor for here.
 
I don't think you know the situation in parts of Britain at the moment. There is very little pollen about, so even if they can get out to forage there's virtually nothing there for them. The willows here are reluctant to flower, the early blossom has almost gone and the OSR won't be flowering for a while yet.


Last weekend, when we had some sun, I took a sample of returning foragers for a microscopy class. Fully three quarters of my caught bees were carrying pollen. So I do have some pollen, if only the bees could get out to it.
 
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Who knows....

It was promised 2 days ago here +15C on sunday and now the promise is rain and +4C.

I was ready to start patty feeding, but now forecast is rain next 5 days and +2C. If bees do not get drinking water, the hive becomes sick if I start it now.

Figures are moving every day



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...Fully three quarters of my caught bees were carrying pollen. So I do have some pollen, if only the bees could get out to it.
Brownish pollen here, there are ornamental cherries flowering and plums just about open in sheltered corners. May be an opportunity to take samples at the weekend.
 
There was some talk in weather circles of an outrageous 23 degrees on Sunday. I've just had a look, and it's now been downgraded to 15. Sounds like someone was smoking exotic imported tobacco ?

Still, I'll be glad of anything over 10, if it kicks the Natural World into 1st gear. Anything to get it started-off ...

Right now in Boston, it's back to 5 degrees and heavily overcast.

LJ
 
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Hazel catkins were beginning to show in my locality but most of these have now been frost damaged and have turned brown... My father reports seeing Honeybees working on daffodils in our garden - very distinctive behaviour with pollen visibly being combed into the corbiculae and definitely not bees gathering water from the daffodil heads. Am glad I went around my apiaries on Saturdy with Pollen substitue patties. If they don't need it or want it I can scrape it off the frames on my first proper inspection.
 
There was some talk in weather circles of an outrageous 23 degrees on Sunday. I've just had a look, and it's now been downgraded to 15. Sounds like someone was smoking exotic imported tobacco ?

Still, I'll be glad of anything over 10, if it kicks the Natural World into 1st gear. Anything to get it started-off ...

Right now in Boston, it's back to 5 degrees and heavily overcast.

LJ

Hi LJ,
I am really fed up with bbc weather. They downgrade on an hourly basis from 20C to 17C yday and now 15C. In a couple of hours I expect it will be 12C for Sunday. Not very scientific is it? Poor farmers of any sort or anyone else relying on the weather for that matter! Was hoping for some pollen gathering because there was 'risk of sunshine'. I just blinked and missed it! Fed them some 1:1 yday and they are still carrying water?
 
Finman made the comment earlier in this thread that it's difficult to make a patty which is guaranteed that the bees will take. I think I may have found a simple explanation for why this is.

If you Google "Chapter 5 Nectar Chemistry", you'll find a link at the top of the list to an 800k .pdf file, which is an editor's 'proof' of Chapter 5 from the book 'Nectaries and Nectar', ISBN 978-1-4020-5936-0
It makes for great reading, although it certainly helps if you've got some biochemistry under your belt.

What comes across is just how little knowledge currently exists in regard of the amino acids, proteins, minerals, lipids etc., which can be found within various nectars.

From that text it is clear that there are certain chemicals which act as attractants to some insects and as deterrents to others - in particular, bitterness deterring bees. And notably, some brewer's yeasts *are* bitter. (Holland and Barratt do sell 'de-bittered yeast' - but at a price).

What impressed me most, was just how complex and varied the constituents of nectar can be (let alone pollens !) - and yet we optimistically hope to create a tasty protein supplement by simply mixing one or two ingredients together, whilst hoping for the best.

I think finding an acceptable patty mix could well be a good PhD project for somebody - run something along the lines of how dog foods are (allegedly) tested - you know - putting 12 plates of different food out, and observing which gets the highest 'hit rate'.

LJ
 
Finman made the comment earlier in this thread that it's difficult to make a patty which is guaranteed that the bees will take. I think I may have found a simple explanation for why this is.

If you Google "Chapter 5 Nectar Chemistry", you'll find a link at the top of the list to an 800k .pdf file, which is an editor's 'proof' of Chapter 5 from the book 'Nectaries and Nectar', ISBN 978-1-4020-5936-0
It makes for great reading, although it certainly helps if you've got some biochemistry under your belt.

What comes across is just how little knowledge currently exists in regard of the amino acids, proteins, minerals, lipids etc., which can be found within various nectars.

From that text it is clear that there are certain chemicals which act as attractants to some insects and as deterrents to others - in particular, bitterness deterring bees. And notably, some brewer's yeasts *are* bitter. (Holland and Barratt do sell 'de-bittered yeast' - but at a price).

What impressed me most, was just how complex and varied the constituents of nectar can be (let alone pollens !) - and yet we optimistically hope to create a tasty protein supplement by simply mixing one or two ingredients together, whilst hoping for the best.

I think finding an acceptable patty mix could well be a good PhD project for somebody - run something along the lines of how dog foods are (allegedly) tested - you know - putting 12 plates of different food out, and observing which gets the highest 'hit rate'.

LJ
Hi LJ,
Since homemade pollen patties are 'new' to many beeks on this forum can we do a poll to see if any of the homemades got hit and to what extent. Also, I take it that the bought ones are consumed. Just thinking about next season if it should prove to be a DISASTER not to have fed pollen patties in any form! I realise it will not be a scientific study, but interesting none the less IMHO. Interesting point about de-bittered yeast! Thanks for educating us.
 
Hi Beeno - the main point I was trying to convey (abeit in a rather long-winded way) is that bees have 'taste buds' - or the insect equivalent thereof - but that we don't feature 'taste' in our concoctions. Indeed - we don't have a clue (afaik) what tastes 'turn bees on' - we only focus on protein percentages etc, and not what the stuff tastes like ...

I agree - collating empirical data could be a useful start.

LJ
 
Hi Beeno - the main point I was trying to convey (abeit in a rather long-winded way) is that bees have 'taste buds' - or the insect equivalent thereof - but that we don't feature 'taste' in our concoctions. Indeed - we don't have a clue (afaik) what tastes 'turn bees on' - we only focus on protein percentages etc, and not what the stuff tastes like ...

That is easy to see next day: if bees are eating it or not. How to get it tasty, it needs skill... not easy job not at least to me.

If only focus is protein percentages, then life teaches. Of course first, you may blaim the guy who gove the recipe.

For example when I have a recipe, which I have developed 10 years that it is tasty, what guys do at once, they try to make their own and drop essential stuffs off.

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