Powering a Varrox

[VEG]

Manners maketh man

 

[Tom Bick]

Anyone know the answer to my questions above....about using solar chargers?

The problem is at the time of year you would want to use your battery solar is virtually useless unless you invest some serious money.

 

[madasafish]

The problem is at the time of year you would want to use your battery solar is virtually useless unless you invest some serious money.

The average current draw is around 15Amp for 2-3 minutes or around 0.5-0.75 Amp Hours per hive.. Or 5-7.5 Amp hours for 10 hives.

Assume 8 hours of daylight ( depends on season and weather) That means a charging rate of 0.6 to 0.9 Amps per hour at 12 Volts. or around 7-11 watts (Amps x Volts). About £25


That assumes you start charging early in morning. In reality you would start after use.. so you might need a charger twice the size say 20 watts. £30
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/12v-solar-battery-charger-20w

In the real world, with our weather, would you want to leave a charger outside for 4-5 hours unless it is in a safe place ? - as it is unlikely if it's an outside apiary you would be there that long...

 

[Tom Bick]

The average current draw is around 15Amp for 2-3 minutes or around 0.5-0.75 Amp Hours per hive.. Or 5-7.5 Amp hours for 10 hives.

Assume 8 hours of daylight ( depends on season and weather) That means a charging rate of 0.6 to 0.9 Amps per hour at 12 Volts. or around 7-11 watts (Amps x Volts). About £25


That assumes you start charging early in morning. In reality you would start after use.. so you might need a charger twice the size say 20 watts. £30
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/12v-solar-battery-charger-20w

In the real world, with our weather, would you want to leave a charger outside for 4-5 hours unless it is in a safe place ? - as it is unlikely if it's an outside apiary you would be there that long...

Does the above work for you or are you working on theory alone.

I have two panels total 130w charging 12v domestic batteries and I give up on solar from mid October through to early April they are still connected but provide very little if anything. I also have a fancy piece of kit monitoring the batteries it gives me the the v of the batteries v going into the batteries when charging and the state of charge so can monitor if the solar is contributing anything of importance. Come April through to October it's a different story and I could probably weld with the batteries.

 

[madasafish]

Does the above work for you or are you working on theory alone.

I have two panels total 130w charging 12v domestic batteries and I give up on solar from mid October through to early April they are still connected but provide very little if anything. I also have a fancy piece of kit monitoring the batteries it gives me the the v of the batteries v going into the batteries when charging and the state of charge so can monitor if the solar is contributing anything of importance. Come April through to October it's a different story and I could probably weld with the batteries.

Theory only. I have a battery charger and 40AH lead acid battery so capacity is not an issue..

 

[Tom Bick]

Theory only. I have a battery charger and 40AH lead acid battery so capacity is not an issue..

Batter charger has to be the best option.

 

[oliver90owner]

I have a battery charger and 40AH lead acid battery so capacity is not an issue..

Now would that be a 40Ah car battery (as per that link and most of the other instructions I have seen on the net) or any type of 40Ah battery (such as above, a leisure battery, a traction battery, a deep discharge battery, nickel cadmium, nickel metal hydride, lithium ion, or even a nife battery? As it is rechargeable, it could be any of those and be reasonably portable. If it were of the deep discharge flooded lead/acid type, you would almost certainly be needing some wheels as they are heavy, but should last up to 25 years or in excess of 1500 cycles if treated properly.

If not paricularly portable, it could be one of several other chemistries/technologies.

While capacity will not be an issue, longevity with a car battery will be - if sublimating multiple times day after day (I specifically covered this point in an post #38).

Now, has anyone seen anything where the varrox instructions state a minimum of 40Ah without it also very clearly stating car type? If, as I thought, there is not we must come to the simple conclusion that post # 37 is actually absolute rubbish, just as the fantasy instruction, referred to, is absolute rubbish. Yes, one needs to be specific when describing a battery and leaving out important words when quoting instructions is can be very misleading (as in this instance).

In retrospect, I think the 7 1/2 Ah lead/acid battery will expire before 50 cycles, not 150 as I suggested earlier. Well at least to the extent that it would not power that many sublimations between charging.

Tom is correct, a float mains battery charger would likely be the best option for Tremyfro, unless going to the considerable expense of a sufficiently large solar panel for midwinter charging, along with a charge controller to avoid overcharging during very sunny periods on longer daylight hours (ie summer), when most of the energy collected by the panel would need to be rejected.

The L*dl battery charger at around £13 would likely be a good match, ad# that has a 'float' feature, charging to something over 13 volts and with a float range of about 12.5 volts
(guessing here). But one needs to know the float voltage specs for that battery.

Hopefully now, as that link clearly says car, we can now move on with some sensible posts rather than dealing with disgraceful posts attempting to play the player instead of the ball.

 

[Millet]

What a load of bollocks this thread has turned out to be, just buy a battery (any battery) if it works good on you, if it does not work buy a different kind, learn from your mistakes.
Simple really.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

What a load of bollocks this thread has turned out to be, just buy a battery (any battery) if it works good on you, if it does not work buy a different kind, learn from your mistakes.
Simple really.

I think quite a few will by now be in agreement with you. I have two Varrox devices from the 1990's. They have had regular use, but I never encountered any of the apparent difficulties, complications described in this very tautologous thread.

 

[Tremyfro]

Thank you...I can see that the size of the solar panel would be a nuisance...as you say a normal battery charger would be sufficient. Well the one I have would be if my OH hadn't dropped it....he denies all of course! So off to good old Lidl for me!

 

[madasafish]

My 40Ah is a car battery.
It's a modern one so reasonably small but I would not like to carry it far (it does have handles).


I recommend non car batteries for those who cannot carry weights..

 

[vgoncalves]

A 40Ah battery, how many hives can do?

 

[The Drone Ranger]

Varrox takes 12A when stone cold
When moving from one hive to next though it's warm
Then it takes between 8A and 9 A
Lead acid battery is best not discharged more than 50% to extend working life
So 40Ah/2 = 20Ah
20*60/2.5 =480 /8 looks like 60 hives theoretically ?
So I think 20 or 30 should be fine if you stick to the 2.5 mins
I use a controller to automate it and stay out of range

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

 

[oliver90owner]

As I have pointed out earlier, it depends on the type of battery.

Automotive batteries should be discharged much less than 50% depth of disharge (DoD). Regular 30% DoD is likely pushing your luck.

Most other rechargeable chemistries (Ni metal hydride, NiCd, Li ion) cand be used at DoD 's around 80% or more, without damage. Traction batteries are built for deep discharge and leisure batteries are intermediate. I would recommend the 17Ah batteries (as used in mobility scooters, etc) if using lead/acid technology and have more than ten colonies, but again that depends on the timescale of treatments.

I bought a second hand 'start'n'charge' for about £2 at a sale, get the occasional fresh battery from a friend who runs a mobility scooter business (batteries are always changed as pairs, even though it is only one battery that has seriously failed). The item weighs 8.9kg and includes a 100W inverter for 240 volt A/C from the 12 volt battery. Does all I need as a small portable power supply. But I recognise there are many out there that would not be able to change the battery or need a multipurpose item.

 

[vgoncalves]

Thanks Drone Ranger and Oliver,

My idea is to threat about 60 hives per day...

 

[Cussword]

tautologous

That's a big word,,,,,what's it mean?

 

[The Drone Ranger]

Vgoncalves
You can get 2 Lucas AGM deep discharge mobility 34Ah batteries on eBay for £90 or so
I use two 44Ah batteries (they have a handle) which are about as heavy as you would want to lug around (one at a time)

 

[hallshoney]

Thanks Drone Ranger and Oliver,

My idea is to threat about 60 hives per day...

Personally if i were thinking of treating 60 hives a day i would forget the varrox and upgrade to a sublimox way more efficient way of vaporising

 

[clv101]

Varrox takes 12A when stone cold
When moving from one hive to next though it's warm
Then it takes between 8A and 9 A
Lead acid battery is best not discharged more than 50% to extend working life
So 40Ah/2 = 20Ah
20*60/2.5 =480 /8 looks like 60 hives theoretically ?
So I think 20 or 30 should be fine if you stick to the 2.5 mins
I use a controller to automate it and stay out of range

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

It's also worth pointing out that that 40Ah rating on the side only applies at a specific rate of discharge, probably C20. A 12A load is much higher, around C3 so you won't get the full 40Ah out of it. In fact you might only get ~60% of the C20 capacity when discharged at C3.

It's worth taking a multimeter along with you then you can measure the state of discharge as you go. For reference a 50% discharged 12V lead acid has a voltage of ~12.1V (no load). A good rule of thumb is never to discharge below 12V.

Going back to the 40Ah battery, at C3 it might only be a 24Ah battery and you only want to take 12Ah from it before it's 50% discharged - so approximately 1hrs use.

 

[Millet]

Just ordered one of these from Ebay i should easily manage 200 hives with it if i expand next week.