megadyptes
New Bee
I guess if your out in the wilderness apiary then batteries make sense, but for the back yard beekeepers what would it take to power one of these vaporisers via an extension cable and the house leccy supply?
Powering a Varrox
- Thread starter Erichalfbee
- Start date
Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:
linoleum bonypart
Drone Bee
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2015
- Messages
- 1,074
- Reaction score
- 56
- Location
- East Yorkshire
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 12
Managed to sneak a vape in between the rain downpour.... Will have a look in mole cheers
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2010
- Messages
- 11,268
- Reaction score
- 2,943
- Location
- Stoke on Trent
- Hive Type
- Langstroth
- Number of Hives
- 6 to 8 Langstroth jumbos, a few Langstroth and National nucs.
You would need :
240 to 12V transformer capable of 15Watts continuous use.
a RCD current switch .
I don't know if a car battery charger would work -Some of the more spohisticated ones with electronically controlled charging may not..
I thought about it but the need for 100 meters of cable and a transformer said a used 12V car battery was cheaper (£10 ex Gumtree)..
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 36,283
- Reaction score
- 16,259
- Location
- Glanaman,Carmarthenshire,Wales
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- Too many - but not nearly enough
stick an inspection board in - you'll soon see some
Tremyfro
Queen Bee
- Joined
- May 19, 2014
- Messages
- 2,434
- Reaction score
- 0
- Location
- Vale of Glamorgan
- Hive Type
- Beehaus
- Number of Hives
- Possibly...5 and a bit...depends on the bees.
Yes you are right...I just meant I didn't see any actually on the bees seen through the clear board.
I shall be putting boards in after vaping...to monitor the drop.
Cussword
Drone Bee
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,284
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Fylde Coast, Lancashire
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- Still just the 1
Thanks Erica.
I think more like 15A than 15W!
The Suaoki T6 jump start might be good enough for fewer hives. Just not sure of the requirements for these power packs and how they operate into a zero back-voltage start up.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2010
- Messages
- 11,268
- Reaction score
- 2,943
- Location
- Stoke on Trent
- Hive Type
- Langstroth
- Number of Hives
- 6 to 8 Langstroth jumbos, a few Langstroth and National nucs.
I was looking at generators, I can't find one with a 12v output - anyone use a generator?
There are loads of cheap chinese generators, and better quality ones, out there with DC windings. Unfortunately they mostly only produce 100W DC or less.
Just try checking out Machine Mart - but there are plenty of others.
There are loads of cheap chinese generators, and better quality ones, out there with DC windings. Unfortunately they mostly only produce 100W DC or less.
Just try checking out Machine Mart - but there are plenty of others.
OP
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2009
- Messages
- 35,148
- Reaction score
- 15,689
- Location
- Ceredigion
- Hive Type
- 14x12
- Number of Hives
- 13
Yes, I will have to see how it performs through the year and report back
It's now charged and stowed away with the rest of the vaping paraphernalia. I'll see how it holds its charge but I will probably give it a quick recharge before the next outing.
Erichalfbee,
I have looked carefully at the advertising blurb for these devices.
I very quickly come to the conclusion that the specs are either carp, misleading or just hype (attention catching, particularly for the unaware).
The battery is really, truthfully, actually, and honestly, only 12 volt battery of 7.5Ah capacity. I may be bit wrong but somehow I doubt it.....
Here is my analysis, from the Suaoki range.....spelt out in terms that most forum members should be able to comprehend.
They (Suaoki) are careful to separate capacity and voltage. Some say ''up to'' and none specifically quote a voltage and capacity. This immediately leads to the suspicion that their 18Ah (18000mAh) capacity is quoted for the lowest output voltage of 5V. So the capacity @12V would be 18*5/12 Ah = 7.5Ah.
With that suspicion, one can then look at the charge rate and times for charging. The T3 quotes an input current of one amp at 15 volts (which is 15W) and a recharge time of 'about' 4 1/2 hours. That would indicate a total power input of (about) 67.5Wh, which is nowhere near 18Ah @ 12V (216Wh). It does, however equate fairly closely to a capacity of 7.5Ah @ 12V where the depth of discharge is about 75% (so 7.5*12*0.75 = 67.5Wh for the battery recharge capacity).
Surprise, surprise! The figures tally (ignoring the inefficiency of charging and noting the 'about' time for recharging).
These calcs tie in with the G7, T3 and T6. The weights are also about right for the savings over lead acid batteries (a typical 7.5Ah lead acid battery would weigh around 2.5kg). One could have started at the weight comparison instead of the charge time and rate, of course).
So, sorry to pee on your parade a bit. That battery is adequate for about ten sublimations, I would think. The 7.5Ah lead/acid equivalent (a bit bigger than Susie suggests?) should wear out long before your purchase, particularly if it is discharged too deeply or failure to recharge it immediately (or soon) after use. I would not want to sublimate more than, say, 5 times on a regular basis, before recharging - unless the 7.5Ah lead/acid battery was designed specifically for deep cycling, so an AGM rather than a simple Gel electrolyte battery (its capacity @12A discharge rate is likely only about 5-6Ah, anyway). Lots to think about when designing or using batteries!
Regards, RAB
I hope this info may help others to decide on which battery to buy and how to discern between the real truth and the hype where batteries are concerned.
I have looked carefully at the advertising blurb for these devices.
I very quickly come to the conclusion that the specs are either carp, misleading or just hype (attention catching, particularly for the unaware).
The battery is really, truthfully, actually, and honestly, only 12 volt battery of 7.5Ah capacity. I may be bit wrong but somehow I doubt it.....
Here is my analysis, from the Suaoki range.....spelt out in terms that most forum members should be able to comprehend.
They (Suaoki) are careful to separate capacity and voltage. Some say ''up to'' and none specifically quote a voltage and capacity. This immediately leads to the suspicion that their 18Ah (18000mAh) capacity is quoted for the lowest output voltage of 5V. So the capacity @12V would be 18*5/12 Ah = 7.5Ah.
With that suspicion, one can then look at the charge rate and times for charging. The T3 quotes an input current of one amp at 15 volts (which is 15W) and a recharge time of 'about' 4 1/2 hours. That would indicate a total power input of (about) 67.5Wh, which is nowhere near 18Ah @ 12V (216Wh). It does, however equate fairly closely to a capacity of 7.5Ah @ 12V where the depth of discharge is about 75% (so 7.5*12*0.75 = 67.5Wh for the battery recharge capacity).
Surprise, surprise! The figures tally (ignoring the inefficiency of charging and noting the 'about' time for recharging).
These calcs tie in with the G7, T3 and T6. The weights are also about right for the savings over lead acid batteries (a typical 7.5Ah lead acid battery would weigh around 2.5kg). One could have started at the weight comparison instead of the charge time and rate, of course).
So, sorry to pee on your parade a bit. That battery is adequate for about ten sublimations, I would think. The 7.5Ah lead/acid equivalent (a bit bigger than Susie suggests?) should wear out long before your purchase, particularly if it is discharged too deeply or failure to recharge it immediately (or soon) after use. I would not want to sublimate more than, say, 5 times on a regular basis, before recharging - unless the 7.5Ah lead/acid battery was designed specifically for deep cycling, so an AGM rather than a simple Gel electrolyte battery (its capacity @12A discharge rate is likely only about 5-6Ah, anyway). Lots to think about when designing or using batteries!
Regards, RAB
I hope this info may help others to decide on which battery to buy and how to discern between the real truth and the hype where batteries are concerned.
Cussword
Drone Bee
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,284
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Fylde Coast, Lancashire
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- Still just the 1
Thanks for that Rab. So, as I only have 3 hives, the T3 should be OK for me.
OP
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2009
- Messages
- 35,148
- Reaction score
- 15,689
- Location
- Ceredigion
- Hive Type
- 14x12
- Number of Hives
- 13
Story of my life at present......sigh and more sigh!!!
Never mind. I have done 5 hives, the gizmo was charged straightaway and will be charged before next use.
Thank you RAB for such a detailed critique
So, as I only have 3 hives, the T3 should be OK for me.
Read my earlier post. The T6 would likely be sufficient. Note the 'normal' discharge rate for the usual 12 volt connection is rather less than sublimation current. Discharging continually at high current cannot be seen as beneficial for the cells, but if it were used as a regular jump starter, it should cope with 12A for a couple minutes at a time. The G7 seems to be time limited when using the jump stsrt connections?
I look forward to hearing how these power packs fare. I see from the reviews ghat some are good and some appear to have been faulty or rubbish.
These cells do not require returning to full charge immediately after use, like lead/acid cells - as it is lead sulphate in those that becomes unreactive and reduces the capacity partly - or sometimes completely.
Read my earlier post. The T6 would likely be sufficient. Note the 'normal' discharge rate for the usual 12 volt connection is rather less than sublimation current. Discharging continually at high current cannot be seen as beneficial for the cells, but if it were used as a regular jump starter, it should cope with 12A for a couple minutes at a time. The G7 seems to be time limited when using the jump stsrt connections?
I look forward to hearing how these power packs fare. I see from the reviews ghat some are good and some appear to have been faulty or rubbish.
These cells do not require returning to full charge immediately after use, like lead/acid cells - as it is lead sulphate in those that becomes unreactive and reduces the capacity partly - or sometimes completely.
Tremyfro
Queen Bee
- Joined
- May 19, 2014
- Messages
- 2,434
- Reaction score
- 0
- Location
- Vale of Glamorgan
- Hive Type
- Beehaus
- Number of Hives
- Possibly...5 and a bit...depends on the bees.
My battery spec says that is a deep cycling sealed Lead acid battery.
It weighs 2.24 kg. not sure what this all means but it did my 8 hives easily and quickly. At least I can pick it up easily...so perhaps a trade off between portability and battery life.... And the price was OK....even if it only lasts for a few years...I hope!
It weighs 2.24 kg. not sure what this all means but it did my 8 hives easily and quickly. At least I can pick it up easily...so perhaps a trade off between portability and battery life.... And the price was OK....even if it only lasts for a few years...I hope!
2.24 kg
Likely 7.5Ah @ C10 (energy delivery measurement if discharged steadily over 10 hours).
That would mean a current of only three quarters of an amp. That means the capacity at, say, 12A will be perhaps only 5Ah (not any easy calculation for this) as there will be much more energy lost in heating the battery instead of the load and other factors.
That battery would likely do about 7 or perhaps 8 sublimations at 12A before the supply voltage starts to fall away meaning longer for each subsequent sublimation. That number would decrease as the battery ages. Lithium ion batteries have a much flatter voltage drop during discharge until virtually exhausted. It would also depend on the timescale of your activity.
Your battery should give good service - there should be a specification of how many cycles the battery will deliver before the capacity is reduced by a certain amount - provided it is never left in a part discharged condition for any length of time. The C value usually denotes the discharge time and then assumes return to full charge over the specified charging period. Deviation from their specs will, of course, lead to a shorter lifespan if discharged at a rate significantly different or recharging is delayed.
I hope you have an appropriate battery charger, as that may have an effect on battery life. Charging at an excessive final voltage will seriously reduce battery life. Most sellers do not address these factors adequately. Batteries are quite a reliable science - failures are few among the better quality products - but mode of use is beyond the control of the suppliers, hence only a limited guarantee on most products. A good charger is likely to exceed the cost of your battery!
A guess here. If you cycled your 7.5Ah battery at 15C, I would expect around 150 cycles. Any more would be a bonus, to me.
RAB
Likely 7.5Ah @ C10 (energy delivery measurement if discharged steadily over 10 hours).
That would mean a current of only three quarters of an amp. That means the capacity at, say, 12A will be perhaps only 5Ah (not any easy calculation for this) as there will be much more energy lost in heating the battery instead of the load and other factors.
That battery would likely do about 7 or perhaps 8 sublimations at 12A before the supply voltage starts to fall away meaning longer for each subsequent sublimation. That number would decrease as the battery ages. Lithium ion batteries have a much flatter voltage drop during discharge until virtually exhausted. It would also depend on the timescale of your activity.
Your battery should give good service - there should be a specification of how many cycles the battery will deliver before the capacity is reduced by a certain amount - provided it is never left in a part discharged condition for any length of time. The C value usually denotes the discharge time and then assumes return to full charge over the specified charging period. Deviation from their specs will, of course, lead to a shorter lifespan if discharged at a rate significantly different or recharging is delayed.
I hope you have an appropriate battery charger, as that may have an effect on battery life. Charging at an excessive final voltage will seriously reduce battery life. Most sellers do not address these factors adequately. Batteries are quite a reliable science - failures are few among the better quality products - but mode of use is beyond the control of the suppliers, hence only a limited guarantee on most products. A good charger is likely to exceed the cost of your battery!
A guess here. If you cycled your 7.5Ah battery at 15C, I would expect around 150 cycles. Any more would be a bonus, to me.
RAB
Black Comb
Queen Bee
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,737
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Cumbria
- Hive Type
- Other
- Number of Hives
- 10+
Instructions that come with the Varrox say use a battery greater than 40AH.
Instructions that come with the Varrox say use a battery greater than 40AH.
Absolute rubbish, but likely good advice for those who are doing multiple sublimations with only one automotive type lead/acid battery. It is generally advised, for automotive type batteries, to avoid deep discharge. No more than about 10%, if long battery life is expected. All to do with battery design. Deep discharge batteries are designed for - yes - deep discharge. Think electric fork lift trucks or the milk floats of yesteryear?
Lithium ion technology is different from lead/acid?
Absolute rubbish, but likely good advice for those who are doing multiple sublimations with only one automotive type lead/acid battery. It is generally advised, for automotive type batteries, to avoid deep discharge. No more than about 10%, if long battery life is expected. All to do with battery design. Deep discharge batteries are designed for - yes - deep discharge. Think electric fork lift trucks or the milk floats of yesteryear?
Lithium ion technology is different from lead/acid?
Black Comb
Queen Bee
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,737
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Cumbria
- Hive Type
- Other
- Number of Hives
- 10+
Why Mark allows you to post on his forum is beyond me.
The post is pertinent to the thread, and if your opinion is to ignore the manufacturer's instructions then you have no need to use childish language to make your point.
Personally I would rather go with the manufacturer than one of your rants.
The post is pertinent to the thread, and if your opinion is to ignore the manufacturer's instructions then you have no need to use childish language to make your point.
Personally I would rather go with the manufacturer than one of your rants.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2010
- Messages
- 11,268
- Reaction score
- 2,943
- Location
- Stoke on Trent
- Hive Type
- Langstroth
- Number of Hives
- 6 to 8 Langstroth jumbos, a few Langstroth and National nucs.
I have a 40AH battery which I have used for three hives today. Put it on my smart charger - and it says it is still fully charged.. I only bought a 40AH battery as it was s/h and so much cheaper than anything new.
For the hobbyist with under 10 hives ,it is Gross overkill. (I calculated I needed a 10AH battery at most..but it would have cost more.)
