Possible Queenless Hive

[gwt_uk]

Hello all - I am in my second year of beekeeping and currently have 3 colonies.
2 of the colonies are doing well but the third may have run into trouble. I was late in inspecting due to the lockdown.

The problem hive is on a double brood - The top box is jam packed full of honey and pollen and the bottom box is completely empty although it looks as though all the cells have been polished. There are no eggs, no larvae and no brood of any kind. it has a very strong population (much larger than my other colonies) and they were a bit defensive when I inspected.

I have taken a frame of eggs, larvae and capped brood from another colony and will see if they produce queen cells. I am thinking the Queen may have died.

An experienced beekeeper has suggested inspecting after 7 days but I may not be able to get over there for a fortnight.

I had a problem last year with laying workers so know what to look for from that perspective.

Does anyone else have any suggestions/ideas about a course of action?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you are not going to get over there for 14 days you will have to leave them to it.
Giving them a frame of young brood will at least give them a chance to make a new queen and if they have one already they will simply cap what you have put in.
A frame of brood often jolts a new queen into lay as well.

 

[gwt_uk]

Thanks - Appreciate your help. If there is a Queen and she the does start laying will she lay in the bottom box (its full of drawn comb) as well as the top box? I have read that bees usually store honey up the way - is it the same with a queen laying eggs or will she lay below as well?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They've swarmed - virgin queen in hive waiting to go out and see the boys

 

[Madge]

...If there is a Queen and she the does start laying will she lay in the bottom box (its full of drawn comb) as well as the top box? ...

A queen will lay as high up in the hive as she can find empty cells to lay in. So, if there are empty cells in the top box - particularly frames towards the middle of the box, then she is very likely to make use of them. Frames with honey or nectar will stop her from going higher up in the hive. (Some people say ‘usually’ - but I’ve never found a queen to cross a honey barrier.)

 

[gwt_uk]

Thanks for your help. I may have to remove some of the frames of honey in the top box and replace with drawn comb.

 

[gwt_uk]

Thanks. Will the presence of a virgin queen stop laying workers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It takes quite a few weeks for laying workers to develop. In those intervening weeks a virgin will either mate or not or disappear. If she mates then that's OK if she doesn't she will still lay eggs which although they are unfertilised drones are brood and it's the brood pheromone that inhibits workers ovaries.
If she disappears then there is no brood so you get laying workers.
So it's not the virgin but brood that stops laying workers.

 

[gwt_uk]

Thanks very much. Very helpful

 

[Repwoc]

It takes quite a few weeks for laying workers to develop. In those intervening weeks a virgin will either mate or not or disappear. If she mates then that's OK if she doesn't she will still lay eggs which although they are unfertilised drones are brood and it's the brood pheromone that inhibits workers ovaries.
If she disappears then there is no brood so you get laying workers.
So it's not the virgin but brood that stops laying workers.

So does the brood that is the progeny of laying workers inhibit laying workers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now that's a conundrum.
Edit. Thought about this. Perhaps bees need a fair amount of brood to produce enough pheromone by which time there are few LWs. They are all drones or neglected brood.

 

[Murox]

Does brood pheromone vary a little according to the sex of the brood ?

 

[gwt_uk]

Interesting. Do you think one frame of eggs/brood will be enough? I have read a couple of articles saying more frames should be added to a Queenless hive over a 3 week period. I don't want to deplete my other colonies too much though. I guess I will see what they do or don't do with the frame I put in.

 

[gwt_uk]

Just had a quick read of an online article that states that laying worker eggs do not have any egg recognition pheromone.

 

[beeno]

Laying workers become pseudo queens with some queen pheromones which encourage retinue behaviour by other workers and no worker policing. They consider they are +Q and therefore difficult to re-queen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Laying workers become pseudo queens with some queen pheromones which encourage retinue behaviour by other workers and no worker policing. They consider they are +Q and therefore difficult to re-queen.

But pseudo queens lay worker brood. A Capensis trait.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But pseudo queens lay worker brood. A Capensis trait.

 

[Murox]

A rather interesting extract from http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/bees/cape_honey_bee.htm
It is important to note that thelytoky is not an exclusive trait of Cape bees. It is believed that workers from most, if not all, subspecies of honey bees are capable of laying diploid eggs. However, diploid eggs only occurs in <1% of worker-laid eggs of other honey bee subspecies. So while thelytoky is the exception in other honey bee subspecies, it is common in Cape honey bees.