Poly hives

[farbee]

Want to get some poly national nuc boxed & full size hive

Pa*nes do both.

Mbeekeeping does only full size hive.

Which are best and what are the other options?

 

[drstitson]

P is only choice for nucs.

both P & MB have design flaws in their nat hives. both fine poly wise but you have to decide which design suits you.

 

[Mike a]

Without wanting to sound rude but have you tried the search function. Poly hives have been discussed in some detail including the various suppliers and what they offer.

My own preference is MB hives (Nucs and Deep Langs) and using just one frame size with plastic foundation in double brood format until the nectars flows start as the queens I have build up to larger than average sized colonies early in the year and need more than a single or double national brood hive size.

 

[mbc]

Swienty supplied by C Wynne Jones

 

[farbee]

Without wanting to sound rude but have you tried the search function. Poly hives have been discussed in some detail including the various suppliers and what they offer.

My own preference is MB hives (Nucs and Deep Langs) and using just one frame size with plastic foundation in double brood format until the nectars flows start as the queens I have build up to larger than average sized colonies early in the year and need more than a single or double national brood hive size.

Don't want to be rude but have you read the question?

National!

 

[simonrp]

Pay*es have a bit of a sale on at the mo.

 

[itma]

The question "which is best" is sufficiently open as to both invite partisan responses and passing-by on the other side.

What makes something "best" for you?

For Nationals -
Top beespace - only one choice.
Fits under a wooden national roof - only one (and a different) choice. / thus 'seamless' interoperation with existing feeders, etc.
14x12 option - just two choices. (And that's four different manufacturers, so far ...)
Cheapest?
Least visually offensive? (Rather a personal matter of opinion, that one.)
Thickest walls and roof?
Most rugged? Or lightest?
Comes readymade or needs assembly?
Best designed entrance?
Most helpful supplier?
Could it be best if it doesn't take 11 standard hoffman frames and a dummy?

Do you really think beekeepers would agree on what is best?
I'm sure you have your own selection criteria, but unless you specify them, the responses will be as unhelpful as specifying one particular brand without explanation!
My suggestion would be to look through the old threads and only then pose any specific questions that you haven't managed to search out answers for.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I run MBS Nationals mostly on double broods and it is a nice system (10 frames per box), some don't like the lip but is a total non issue in use for me and they travel well. The bees certainly like the hives and do better than my wooden hives.They grew much faster than my wood hives this year and I only had honey from poly this year. I plan to buy 10 more (any know of any MBS sales?).

I also use The ****** but as 14 x 12 units. Again the bees like them and have prospered in them so will be buying 4 more later today. The scultured bottom of the boxes isn't very practical and they are much larger hives (forgetting the 14 x 12 vs BS deep obvious differences). The feeders have had some wax built in them and are a pain if there are still bees up top but the new design has dealt with both of these issues now. I like being able to mix wood and poly supers on this design. This allows me much more flexibility on kit utilisation.

The ****** nucs I like and will buy more today. I have had issues with dead bees in the built in feeder but is solvable and you don't have to use them. The new entrance mod is good and personally I would make the roof thicker but again the bees prosper in them. They are simple to use, I collect swarms in them and travel with two in the car nowdays. I also use MBS nucs adapted to BS, gain another nice and VERY flexible system.

There are other alternatives, try the Swienty ones or the Cornish poly hives. As Dr S say, none are without issues but the bees like them all. This year there has been a distinct difference between my 'poly' bees surviving and my 'wood' bees having real issues. Looking forward to a good year

 

[farbee]

The question "which is best" is sufficiently open as to both invite partisan responses and passing-by on the other side.

What makes something "best" for you?

For Nationals -
Top beespace - only one choice.
Fits under a wooden national roof - only one (and a different) choice. / thus 'seamless' interoperation with existing feeders, etc.
14x12 option - just two choices. (And that's four different manufacturers, so far ...)
Cheapest?
Least visually offensive? (Rather a personal matter of opinion, that one.)
Thickest walls and roof?
Most rugged? Or lightest?
Comes readymade or needs assembly?
Best designed entrance?
Most helpful supplier?
Could it be best if it doesn't take 11 standard hoffman frames and a dummy?

Do you really think beekeepers would agree on what is best?
I'm sure you have your own selection criteria, but unless you specify them, the responses will be as unhelpful as specifying one particular brand without explanation!
My suggestion would be to look through the old threads and only then pose any specific questions that you haven't managed to search out answers for.

Yes but national is national.

I wanted people to give me their view on the current available national options to check I have not missed something. I don't know the details of the different option.

National poly is fairly specific isn't it. How many are there out there.
It would appear not many.

Usually things are bottom spacing but would welcome comment on this.

Is that not reasonable.

Or do you just like having a go at me because that is all you ever do and quite frankly ity is becoming pathetic!

 

[farbee]

P is only choice for nucs.

both P & MB have design flaws in their nat hives. both fine poly wise but you have to decide which design suits you.

Thanks Doc.
Could you elaborate on the design fault please so I can assess which would be best for me.

 

[For want of a better word]

Beehive Supplies of Gunnislake Cornwall have redesigned their Polly hives and as far as I can see have managed to iron out all the faults that the imported hive seem to perpetuate.

Now I am also informed being these are being produced in Cornwall by one of Europe's largest producer of high density polly boxes ( Fish boxes that take one hell of a lot of chucking around !)
Bottom beespace National with an eke to take 14 x 12 if you must!

I am wondering what to do with the PanesNucs... bees seem to be getting into the integral feeder even if the new bit of solid plastic blocker is used... wondering if to fill the space with something..... water comes to mind.. or would a bit of foam be better?
And that is the problem also with them as being the problematic top space bees love to fill gap with brace comb!

 

[For want of a better word]

Want to get some poly national nuc boxed & full size hive

Pa*nes do both.

Mbeekeeping does only full size hive.

Which are best and what are the other options?

Another option would be the APIMAYE system... bit like an Airfix kit and in Langstroth's frame size, but the few beekeeperers I know who have bought them like them!

 

[alanf]

Yes but national is national...

National poly is fairly specific isn't it....

If only it were that simple. Not having a go, but the "National" hive was defined by British Standard to be made of wooden planks. There is no agreed way of translating that into poly. Several manufacturers have different ways of how to do it. It would help if all suppliers stated clearly what they sell and and who actually makes it. But they don't, so we're left to compare notes here.

The first dilemma arises from the fact that all poly hives have thicker walls. So first choice is do you use the national internal or external dimensions? Internal means you fit the same 11 frames plus dummy in, but you can't fit a wooden lid on a poly box. External means you're down to 10 frames but you could fit a single brood box into a wooden stack.

Add in that some use "ridges" to line up the stack, some use recesses over the entrance so the usual mousegards don't fit. Some use hard plastic covers to joint surfaces. Some mould in one piece, some assemble 4 sides. Some cover the 14x12 variants some don't. Actual wall thickness varies. There were some early attempts that got the beespace wrong still being sold off. All makes it harder to operate with boxes from different sources and "best" becomes a choice based on personal preference, supplier convenience and what you already have or might borrow from neighbours in the future.

 

[itma]

...There is no agreed way of translating {the British Standard} into poly. Several manufacturers have different ways of how to do it. ... So first choice is do you use the national internal or external dimensions?

... "best" becomes a choice based on personal preference, supplier convenience and what you already have or might borrow from neighbours in the future.

Oddly enough, my stating those things led to my coming under fire ...
I put beespace top or bottom as the primary criterion, because that is something that many have firm ideas on, and AFAIK there's just the one with top space.
I expressed the standardisation of external dimensions as "fitting under a wooden roof" - which is the practical test - as the second selection criterion.

Until Farbee declares what matters to him, any judgement of what is "best" for him is going to be based on guesswork.

I listed the principal differences, but he doesn't seem to have indicated his priorities, instead choosing to accuse me of "having a go" at him.

 

[alanf]

...I listed the principal differences, but he doesn't seem to have indicated his priorities, instead choosing to accuse me of "having a go" at him.

Unfairly I thought, you had a decent list of options that explained why there was no "best" option without knowing more.

I was just trying to point out that with wooden hives you had at least an open public spec. With poly you don't even have that to rely on and suppliers are lax about stating the design choices that have been made. What they sell under the "national" heading can't be compared using only what they provide as published information.

 

[fatshark]

I am wondering what to do with the PanesNucs... bees seem to be getting into the integral feeder even if the new bit of solid plastic blocker is used... wondering if to fill the space with something..... water comes to mind.. or would a bit of foam be better?
And that is the problem also with them as being the problematic top space bees love to fill gap with brace comb!

I'd recommend cutting out the wall that forms the feeder. That way you create an eight frame poly nuc. You need a long sharp knife. Chop a lump off the end of the block you remove and use it to fill the "ends" of the feeder - this will make sense when you look at the de-walled box. Finally, add a metal runner glued and pinned - this converts it to bottom bee space. Use mega grip or similar to seal, fill gaps and generally hold everything together.

A huge improvement on the original!

You can also convert them to create two four frame nucs with a central divider and another entrance.

I think Adam first suggested this on the BBKA forums, but its been covered on the SBAi site as well.

 

[itma]

Beehive Supplies of Gunnislake Cornwall have redesigned their Polly hives ...
Bottom beespace National with an eke to take 14 x 12 if you must!

Is that a change for the Mark 2?
The Mark 1 is photographed on the website with a proper 14x12 brood...

I am wondering what to do with the PanesNucs... bees seem to be getting into the integral feeder even if the new bit of solid plastic blocker is used... wondering if to fill the space with something..... water comes to mind.. or would a bit of foam be better?
And that is the problem also with them as being the problematic top space bees love to fill gap with brace comb!

As previously reported, I have closed off the entrance to the feeder (under the 14x12 eke), duct-taped the eke securely in place and closed the top of the feeder slot (flush with the top of the eke) with a big piece of foam just wedged in there.
As such it makes a brilliant swarm collection box (and early days home).
I've heard of some folks adding rails for the frames to rest on (thereby closing the space that has been a bother to you). I haven't. Mine have never (so far!) bothered to make a mess up there - maybe because of the wider 14x12 top bars.

 

[Poly Hive]

Setting aside the timber national, I think it is fair to say that the word National is relevant to the frame not the hive.

Moving on from that minor issue there are issues with all of them, but there are issues with all hives all in all.

Personally I prefer the Swienty product, but the issue for me with them is it only takes comfortably 10 frames not 11. Yes 11 can be forced in but... I prefer not to do that.

As though I work double broods I am not fussed about it as I find my bees are happy enough with 20 frames.

The P****s product is too loose a fit for my liking, I cannot for the life of me see why the front has been made shallower and in such a way as to make fitting a mouse guard somewhat of a challenge to put it mildly. Nor is the roof a clever design, and the floor has a frankly silly sized alighting board.

As ever it is personal choice.

PH

 

[Skyhook]

I put beespace top or bottom as the primary criterion, because that is something that many have firm ideas on, and AFAIK there's just the one with top space.

Which is...? (or should that be ?...)

 

[itma]

Which is...? (or should that be ?...)

MB.

From their FAQ page --

Can Snelgrove, Cloake boards and the like be used as normal, or does a top bee-space poly hive require dedicated boards on National hives?

Firstly, like queen excluders it may be necessary to sand off a little wood from the corners of the board so the hive body above the board fits
properly - as the internal corners of the hive body at the overlap are rounded.

As the hives are top bee space there is a risk of some brace comb being built above the frames but as these boards are not normally left on the hive permanently this should not be a major issue. However, the simplest solution would simply be to turn the board upside down - this will create the correct bee space above and below it.

/// ... and also note the reference to the lip, and sanding off edges.