oxalic acid and glycerine mix

[Millet]

Halleluja.

Why don't you read original researches. I am able to do that, because I have education of biological researcher. So simple, who I am. I read always original papers.

And I earned my living with searching and sieving facts in my work 40 years after university.

"Randy Oliver is one of the most respected bee researchers on the planet " He is not first name when I start to look answers to beekeeping diseases.

Is old research from years gone by better than today's research with the new technology we have, ? .

 

[Finman]

Is old research from years gone by better than today's research with the new technology we have, ? .

too general question... and in this forum research or technology means nothing, because people do not have enough knowledge to see, is the information true or false.

Like in Britain, beekeeping reaseaching is modest. No money.

Our researching in Finland is zero, but private beekeepers have own connections to get best knowledge.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Randy Oliver is not a researcher. He is hobby researcher. He writes what others have researched.

When I have collected to this forum latest varroa research links, Welsh village hyenas have emerged to chain at once to laugh. That about sciece of this forum.

You are quite right, Oliver is not an academic researcher (for a start, he does not give p values, whatever they are, with his results) but what he tends to do is find something that might have promise for use in the USA and plays with it in sufficient detail so as to make it a practical application in his locality. In his ABJ article he gives full acknowledgement about the earlier work of Fernando Estaban and refers to the product Aluen CAP in Argentina.

It appears to me that this treatment - OA/Gly delivered via a Shop Towel - has the advantage that it delivers OA to the bees/mite over a period in excess of a month (at least two Varroa life cycles, if there is brood) and does not have the "vapour" hazards of sublimation and no battery to carry.

CVB

 

[Hivemaker.]

The cardboard strips treat over 42 days....https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...ticias/aluen-cap-llega-a-la-calle&prev=search

It is important to mention that the product was successfully tested through a wide network of national and international trials - Switzerland, France, Uruguay, Chile and Italy among others - with the participation of different social actors such as Universities, Ministries and Other State agencies through their intervention programs, as well as producer organizations.

 

[Finman]

.
There are earlier trials about cellulose strips 2004....No glyserol

VARROA CONTROL USING CELLULOSE STRIPS SOAKED IN OXALIC
ACID WATER SOLUTIONMarinelli E.*, Formato G.**, Vari G.***, De Pace F.M.*
*Consiglio per la Ricerca e Sperimentazione in Agricoltura

https://www.apimondia.com/apiacta/articles/2006/marinelli_apiacta.pdf

EFFICACY:
Seven apiaries were chosen, in six different areas of the Latium region and one in the Tuscany region. Each of the seven, consisting of 20 colonies, were divided into two groups of the same strength:

astelporziano (Rm) 7,6 %
Mentana (Rm) 30,8
Artena (Rm) 19,3
Titignano (Pi) 37,7
Latina 17,9
Mean 22,7 %

 

[Finman]

The cardboard strips treat over 42 days....https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...ticias/aluen-cap-llega-a-la-calle&prev=search

This same product “ALUEN CAP” has been on markets in August of 2015 in Argentina.

Comments in Spain http://www.desdelapiquera.com/2015/08/aulen-cap-nuevo-tratamiento-ecologico.html


And
http://intainforma.inta.gov.ar/?p=23390

August 27, 2014


They present an organic product against varroa with 95% efficiency
It is Aluen CAP, the first acaricide in the world that eliminates almost all of the parasites of the main bee pest. Low cost and no environmental impact, it is highly efficient and does not generate resistance or affect bees

 

[Finman]

Is old research from years gone by better than today's research with the new technology we have, ? .

in oxalic acid case technology is same as 15 years ago. And results are same.

Varroa group worked 6 years, and beekeepers do not have time to read even one page. But they invent their own questions and 100 pages discussion. Do not blame me that I am grude.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Well, that's another thread that you've trashed, Finnie. 47 posts and 17 of them from you.

CVB

 

[Beefriendly]

Well, that's another thread that you've trashed, Finnie. 47 posts and 17 of them from you.

CVB

Why do you say this?
Finman has provided some very useful information on this thread, some of which is totally new to me like, "Aluen Cap".
But he does seem to be fighting a losing battle with those who seem to prefer anecdotal local association gossip to proper research.

 

[MartinL]

Well, that's another thread that you've trashed, Finnie. 47 posts and 17 of them from you.

CVB

Why do you say this? .

Perhaps Finman's posts are contrary to CVB's opinion on this matter??

Finman has provided some very useful information on this thread, some of which is totally new to me like, "Aluen Cap".
But he does seem to be fighting a losing battle with those who seem to prefer anecdotal local association gossip to proper research.

I for one fail to see how a soggy paper towel can be as effective as sublimation. We have a multitude of options open to us in everything we do. However, I would nearly always want to chose the best one for me, ie driving to work, using electricity to light my home & communicating via the internet.

Why would any sensible person want to go through a long winded unproven method such as this when there are two proven options that are simple??

 

[Finman]

.
Do as you wish out there. I am not going to debate about clear things rest of my life with 3 hive owners. 10 years is enough.

But for goodness' sake, do not read Europen mite researching reports. Argentina, California and Egypt are best places to find innovative treatments. And you can pay 200 £ from your oxalic acid kilo, just in peace.

.

 

[Eyeman]

Why would any sensible person want to go through a long winded unproven method such as this when there are two proven options that are simple??

The paper towel method was designed to provide a prolonged, slow, release of OA for treatment when brood is present.
Current OA delivery methods fall far short of satisfactory mite control when brood is present.

 

[Beefriendly]

Current OA delivery methods fall far short of satisfactory mite control when brood is present.

No they don't., they can work extremely well when brood is present.
Repeated vaping works very well. A least in my hands and those of many others who use it successfully.
I'm not saying that glycerol/OA damp towels won't work either, but I've yet to hear of anyone using them successfully in the UK.

 

[Beefriendly]

I for one fail to see how a soggy paper towel can be as effective as sublimation.

From the research in Argentina it seems to work very well. Not heard if it works under UK conditions. It would be a lot less effort to stick a soggy towel on and leave it there. even if it ended up being slightly less efficient than vaporization.

 

[Hivemaker.]

From the research in Argentina it seems to work very well. Not heard if it works under UK conditions. It would be a lot less effort to stick a soggy towel on and leave it there. even if it ended up being slightly less efficient than vaporization.

Don't think they have tried/tested the paper towels in Argentina, same mixture, but on cardboard strips suspended in between the combs, and the commercially available product is already on the market in some countries... the shop towel idea being tested is Randy Olivers.

 

[Eyeman]

No they don't., they can work extremely well when brood is present.
Repeated vaping works very well. A least in my hands and those of many others who use it successfully.

I'm looking for 1 or 2 treatments a year to keep mite levels down. OA when brood is present struggles to achieve that level of control.
On the other hand if you time the OA treatment to coincide with brood less or minimal brood periods ie. winter, artificial swarms, requeening etc then it works well.

 

[Beefriendly]

Don't think they have tried/tested the paper towels in Argentina, same mixture, but on cardboard strips suspended in between the combs, and the commercially available product is already on the market in some countries... the shop towel idea being tested is Randy Olivers.

I hadn't heard about the cardboard strips, the stuff I read about Argentina used nitrocellulose soaked strips It will be interesting to see if the soaked towels really work. Can't see why not.

 

[Beefriendly]

OA when brood is present struggles to achieve that level of control.

I and others find that it works very well. So well that we forgo the mid winter vaping as there are so few varroa left after the sept/oct vapings.

We are using an active, rather than a passive, vaporizer and find it works extremely well. Perhaps these 12v pan type ones don't really deliver the goods (or should that be OA)?

 

[Eyeman]

I and others find that it works very well. So well that we forgo the mid winter vaping as there are so few varroa left after the sept/oct vapings.

Some active vapers have cottoned on that vaping from the below is less effective than from the top. So still a lot to learn.
Bottom line with any varroa treatment is to keep the mite number continually under control, once the mite number rocket then any treatment will struggle. All treatments play the percentage game.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I hadn't heard about the cardboard strips, the stuff I read about Argentina used nitrocellulose soaked strips It will be interesting to see if the soaked towels really work. Can't see why not.

This is the research from Argentina using celulose/cardboard.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-015-0405-7#Tab3

Here is a discussion using celulose/cardboard.

http://teca.fao.org/discussion/varroa-jacobsoni-natural-methods-fight-it?page=1

Below is a link to the commercially available product.

https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...ticias/aluen-cap-llega-a-la-calle&prev=search

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying they used something like gun cotton to soak the oxalic/glycerine mixture into?

Nitrocellulose (also known as cellulose nitrate, flash paper, flash cotton, guncotton, and flash string) is a highly flammable compound formed by nitrating cellulose through exposure to nitric acid or another powerful nitrating agent. When used as a propellant or low-order explosive, it was originally known as guncotton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose


Could you please add a link to the one you read where they were using Nitrocellulose.