Omf

[Karsal]

Here we go again but this is my observation regarding OMF's
Last year I had one hive that lots of dead bees on the floor outside for several days I a row.
It was cold and windy but the other two hives were unaffected.

I took a sample of bees and had them inspected for disease and nothing was found. I decided to close up the floor and sweep the bees up. The following day same weather as before and no dead bees. My conclusion was to much OMF was allowing them to get a chill. They are in P Poly hives. When the floor is put in there is still adequate ventilation as its not a good fit.
Has anyone else noticed similar?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no, never, OMF always fully open

 

[oliver90owner]

Drones evicted from that hive? Attempted robbing? Perhaps not flying the next day, after you swept them up? Might be other simple explanations? Long time ago, now! Easy to draw wrong concusions without studying all the evidence.

I've never noticed anything similar. Bees outside will get cold but bees inside are perfectly OK. After all, they go all through the winter with minimal dead bees on the OMF... So nothing at all to do with the OMF, I would think.

 

[Karsal]

It was January long after the drones had been evicted. My conclusion was a small colony in a draughty position so closed floor up. They survived the winter and gave me 47lb of honey. However on a P poly hive the floor is not completely sealed and there remains some ventilation. One only has to leave a small window open in a room in winter and you can feel a draught. So I applied this to the bees and allowed some ventilation but not fully open. We all try different things which work for some but not for others.

 

[fred scuttle]

It was January long after the drones had been evicted. My conclusion was a small colony in a draughty position so closed floor up. They survived the winter and gave me 47lb of honey. However on a P poly hive the floor is not completely sealed and there remains some ventilation. One only has to leave a small window open in a room in winter and you can feel a draught. So I applied this to the bees and allowed some ventilation but not fully open. We all try different things which work for some but not for others.

Are you using any insulation in the roof above the crown board in an eke? I've found that kingspan seems to help them overwinter and tends to keep the cluster in the upper part of the hive enabling better uptake of any fondant if they need supplemental feeding in the depths of winter... Oh, but do remember to remove the Queen excluder under the crown board... Then again I'm probably just talking poppycock!

 

[oliver90owner]

Possibly the colony was encouraged to fly due to better insolation in that position? Or the others were more sheltered for returning bees? Bees clearing out dead from the floor on a few days of better weather? More bees needing to go on cleansing flights and failing to return? A one full-season beek making hasty conclusions on a single observation?

Somehow I don't think the coclusion stated in this thread 'holds much water', where OMFs are concerned. Your conclusion seems not to be supported by many and no others, thus far.

The time of the year was an important omission from your opening post. That alone demonstrates something to me.

 

[B+.]

My conclusion was a small colony in a draughty position so closed floor up.

Could it be that the wind changed direction and blew straight into the entrance?

Like others, I always leave my OMF completely open over winter. Bees don't have too much problem with the cold in this country. Its wet conditions that seems to do the most harm.

 

[BrianO]

I have flipped and flopped between open, half open and with insert fully in.

Finally concluded and convinced, during winter, open and super, or preferably double brood which gives good protection and baffles down wind.

Worth considering where you are, here in Ireland due to Atlantic weather patterns we get a lot of wind !

Insert in has potential to allow falling varroa to get back into hive

You can be sure with a OMF exposed on single brood the cluster will be subject to significant wind chill.

 

[Karsal]

Your right Fred.
Eke on top of hive with 3 inch of kingspan on crownboard. All hives the same. Fondant on in the centre in a plastic container. They seem to take it ok.
I'll try a restricted OMF floor this winter on the one hive and fully open on the others. Will be interesting to see the results. Mortality and spring build up.

 

[Finman]

no, never, OMF always fully open

you may keep it 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 or what ever open.

When I bought first mesh hive 1987, I closed it 97%.
Then I discarded it.

1987 summer was coldest summer in Finland during last 100 years.

.,

 

[pargyle]

you may keep it 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 or what ever open.

When I bought first mesh hive 1987, I closed it 97%.
Then I discarded it.

1987 summer was coldest summer in Finland during last 100 years.

.,

Well ..that's one of your more irrelevant and less meaningful posts .. added about as much to the thread as this one did !!!

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'll try a restricted OMF floor this winter on the one hive and fully open on the others. Will be interesting to see the results. Mortality and spring build up.

If you do leave the omf in place it's a good idea to check and clean it regularly (very often), because the bees can't get at it to remove debris as the mesh is in the way. The end result can be a mouldy layer containing a load of wax moth larvae.

If you want to seal off the omf best to push something above the mesh, inside the hive, rather than leaving the counting board/tray - or whatever it's called these days - underneath.

 

[fred scuttle]

I don't think the coclusion stated in this thread 'holds much water', where OMFs are concerned. Your conclusion seems not to be supported by many and no others, thus far.

The time of the year was an important omission from your opening post. That alone demonstrates something to me.

Take a break from tradition and offer some 'constructive' advice instead every now and again in place of your predicted pedantic criticism.. It's boring me now..... Forums are for collective learning please, they don't exist purely to make oneself think that they appear superior to all other posters on here... Just saying.....

 

[fred scuttle]

Your right Fred.
Eke on top of hive with 3 inch of kingspan on crownboard. All hives the same. Fondant on in the centre in a plastic container. They seem to take it ok.
I'll try a restricted OMF floor this winter on the one hive and fully open on the others. Will be interesting to see the results. Mortality and spring build up.

That sounds right to me and I've also been trying a few experiments between hives this winter with leaving omf floors in, leaving them out completely, and having them partially in.... With your insulation regime very similar to mine it with be interesting to compare results post March for sure.... Remember to top up the fondant though regardless if they need it!

 

[Finman]

Well ..that's one of your more irrelevant and less meaningful posts .. added about as much to the thread as this one did !!!

Irrelevant saying is one of the most famous intellectual mocking style in Britain. But if you use brains in beekeeping, you may get 300 lbs honey/hive.

Remember Pargyle, fact is that honeybee has evoluted in Africa, not in UK after last Ice Age millions years ago.

Keep your hives warm. Insulate hives, not ventilate. But your human houses first.

I wonder from where the all wisdom can come into some 6-hive owner in couple of years that he is able to mock experinced beekeeper's opinions just like that. And burn your longhive. I burned them 50 years ago.

 

[Finman]

Could it be that the wind changed direction and blew straight into the entrance?

Like others, I always leave my OMF completely open over winter. Bees don't have too much problem with the cold in this country. Its wet conditions that seems to do the most harm.

Ridiculous thinking that weather is the problem in beekeeping. Change the weather ...

Cold is allways limiting factors in bees' life.

OMF has 40 times more ventilation than solid bottom board.

I look the need of veltilation from number of ventilating bees.
I use now 1 cm x 15 cm entrance open in the hive. Why you need 30 cm 30 cm ????

And I do not add extra box under the winter box to stop cold and wind to enter the nest.

Use you beekeeping skills, Pals!

.

 

[oliver90owner]

Fred Scuffle offering more 'advice' and inappropriate comments. Clearly still rattled after a previous scuffle where his feathers were ruffled after posting poppycock.

Here we have one beekeeper claiming lots of bees being lost in the middle of winter from a hive which maybe should have been quiescent, but were not for probably one simple reason. A reason that the OP did not analyse or even think about. Well, now we seem to have two? - not really sure, but if checking it out with a couple hives will most definitely lead to a definitive result in next to no time. Lets forget the experience of the thousands of hives with OMF over the last few decades.

Clearly the non-thinkers hope to be in ascendancy over those who have adopted the OMF as a better method, or at least as good as a solid floor, for overwintering their colonies. Back to matchsticks under the crownboard might be their next negative advancement?

Last year I had one hive that lots of dead bees on the floor outside for several days I a row. It was cold and windy but the other two hives were unaffected. I took a sample of bees and had them inspected and nothing was found.

''Inpected for disease'' what for, in the middle of winter? By whom? NBU labs? Somehow I doubt it. Probably a check for nosema. No mention of treatments - oxalic trickling which may have affected one colony more than the others (dose rate?). No reason given for why they were flying. Nothing really substantive at all really, was there? Just one hive of three with dead bees in front. Then no more because they had perhaps cleared the floor of dead bees, were no longer flying, or one of several other reasons for the observation. Yes, one observation with no analysis and jumping to the first and only conclusion considered. Real science going on here? Or more poppycock? Was this observation reproducible? I somehow doubt it very, very much.

There now, ''last year'' - actually in the midle of winter when bees would not be expected to be flying every day. But not mentioned in the OP. ''Lots'' but no hard data. Just a subjective assessment.

 

[EKBee]

I had a cedar hive double brood on which I accidentally left the inspection sheet
in last winter. (It was on an exposed site & being worried about an impending storm I'd fixed a large post behind the hive & ratcheted the hive to it it so it got stuck in place for the duration)

In the Spring I did notice that the outside frames on this hive were mouldy / mildewed presumably due to the reduced ventilation. I think this is typical of what used to happen with solid floors previously in this area

We had a mild damp winter here in the west

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I had a cedar hive double brood on which I accidentally left the inspection sheet
in last winter. (It was on an exposed site & being worried about an impending storm I'd fixed a large post behind the hive & ratcheted the hive to it it so it got stuck in place for the duration)

In the Spring I did notice that the outside frames on this hive were mouldy / mildewed presumably due to the reduced ventilation. I think this is typical of what used to happen with solid floors previously in this area

We had a mild damp winter here in the west

I suspect the mildew was caused by dampness, which itself was caused by condensation on the side walls and possibly the outer side of the outside frames. If you had had insulation on the top and sides, there would likely have been no condensation and the hive would be warmer. The humidity in the hive would be higher but if there are no cold surfaces on which condensation can form, there will be no dampness to cause mildew.

I'll be trying leaving the inspection boards on my hives in position this winter and rely on the under floor entrance (9mm x 380mm) to allow any air changes initiated by the bees or the weather. I'll also check and clean the board every week or so, just to keep a handle on mite numbers and to make sure there no condensation down there. My bees, my hives, my decision.

CVB

 

[pargyle]

.

Irrelevant saying is one of the most famous intellectual mocking style in Britain. But if you use brains in beekeeping, you may get 300 lbs honey/hive.

More irrelevance ...

Remember Pargyle, fact is that honeybee has evoluted in Africa, not in UK after last Ice Age millions years ago.

And more ...

Keep your hives warm. Insulate hives, not ventilate. But your human houses first.

Now that's useful and I agree with it ....