Nuc into hive...to feed, or not?

[Do224]

I’ve just transferred a nuc into a national brood box (it’s a small cast swarm I caught about 4 weeks ago).

The bees were working 5 frames in the nuc...although a couple of these were only about two thirds drawn from starter strips at the top. There was brood and stores throughout.

I’m really hoping this colony will have filled the brood box in time for winter and just wondering if I should be helping them along at this stage by feeding syrup? There’s a good flow on here at present so not sure if this is necessary or if I’m best leaving them to it for now and feeding in autumn.

I think their first brood should be emerging any time now so hoping the younger bees will be keen to start drawing out the rest of the brood box which is filled with full frames of foundation as opposed to starter strip frames (they just had starter strips in the nuc as that’s all I had at the time)

 

[Erichalfbee]

To be honest they are better off in the nuc still but others may disagree.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To be honest they are better off in the nuc still but others may disagree.

No, I agree chucking them in a full hive would probably slow them down not chivvy them along. It's obvious they don't need the extra space. You can't just force the bees to do what you want - especially in this case

 

[Patrick1]

A space to fit the growth, they have to keep it warm and cool, if it’s too big they will give up and die. feed until they stop taking it down, don't bother them too much but check they have space next to the brood areas to expand. Take out excess stores and replace with foundation, put the store somewhere safe to introduce back in when you move at least 4 frames of brood to a full hive.

 

[REDWOOD]

Asking a lot from the bees with starter strips, keep it in the nuc for now

 

[madasafish]

Nuc and feed. (fondant would be easier or they may fill up laying space with sugar)

 

[oliver90owner]

The best way, without having ‘to hope’, is to add some emerging brood, increasingnthe amount as the colony gets stronger (so the nurse bees can cover the extra frames of brood).

Hoping means needing luck. Beekeepers can do better than needing luck, if they actually think ahead a bit.

 

[Do224]

Thanks all, I’m possibly going to be away for a few weeks during August and wanted to get them into a full size hive so that the person who’ll be keeping an eye on my hives for me wouldn’t have to worry about doing it while I’m away.

Appreciate they should have stayed in the nuc a bit longer ideally, but thought with the weather being so hot they would be ok keeping the bigger box warm. Incidentally, at what stage would you ideally transfer from a nuc? Presume you don’t wait until it’s jam packed or they might swarm.

I know the starter strips weren’t ideal but I was caught short as had three swarms arrive at my bait hives all at the same time so had to make do with what I had.

 

[ericbeaumont]

working 5 frames in the nuc...although a couple of these were only about two thirds drawn from starter strips

5 or 6-frame box?

I usually wait until frames and box are really full; sounds like your upgrade may be premature.

Last week I looked at two May 5f splits and upgraded them immediately: they were rammed.

By today they'd filled the extra 6f with brood and nectar and may need more space soon; they're on bell heather, and this week balsam is coming in.

 

[Do224]

5 or 6-frame box?

I usually wait until frames and box are really full; sounds like your upgrade may be premature.

Last week I looked at two May 5f splits and upgraded them immediately: they were rammed.

By today they'd filled the extra 6f with brood and nectar and may need more space soon; they're on bell heather, and this week balsam is coming in.

Yeah sounds like I moved them too soon. It was a six frame homemade ply box but I was working on the basis that it would be reasonably full if it was a five frame nuc...

 

[drex]

You could transfer to a full hive and dummy right down with good insulation. Your bee sitter would then just have to pop in an extra frame or two as needed.

 

[Do224]

You could transfer to a full hive and dummy right down with good insulation. Your bee sitter would then just have to pop in an extra frame or two as needed.

Excellent idea, many thanks

 

[Do224]

Nuc and feed. (fondant would be easier or they may fill up laying space with sugar)

I hadn’t thought of giving them fondant...I thought that was just a winter thing.

I didn’t realise it was a viable alternative to syrup and that they’d be more likely to build comb with it rather than store it as they may do with syrup.

 

[user 20297]

I hadn’t thought of giving them fondant...I thought that was just a winter thing.

I didn’t realise it was a viable alternative to syrup and that they’d be more likely to build comb with it rather than store it as they may do with syrup.

I've just taken a delivery of 50 kg of soft fondant. I had previously thought it was just a winter product. But it's also recommended for things such as mini-plus nucs, with open feeders where the bees might drown in syrup.

I'm trying it with a couple of nucs I have set up; the bees have taken to it very quickly. It self-evidently contains less water than syrup. Presumably, the bees have to add some fluids in order to imbibe it., but the sugar will then be at the optumum dilution for them to be able to absorb it. With stomachs full of concentrated sugars, young bees apparently have no option but to "sweat" wax......lovely!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I hadn’t thought of giving them fondant...I thought that was just a winter thing.

I didn’t realise it was a viable alternative to syrup and that they’d be more likely to build comb with it rather than store it as they may do with syrup.

they'll store fondant just as readily as they do syrup.

 

[user 20297]

they'll store fondant just as readily as they do syrup.

I've seen a reliable blog where there was photographic evidence that the bees had stored fondant as fondant!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've seen a reliable blog where there was photographic evidence that the bees had stored fondant as fondant!

That was probably mouldy pollen. They do store it, but just the same as sugar syrup stores

 

[user 20297]

.............the rest of the brood box which is filled with full frames of foundation as opposed to starter strip frames

I've had no trouble with using starter strips; in fact, the bees seem to prefer it to using full sheets of foundation. I fitted two horizontal cross-pieces of stainless-steel wire in B.S. Deep National frames in order to give support. I've learned and experienced that the trick is to give them a little (say 250ml of syrup) and then leave them after they've consumed that for a few days before a refill.

Just now, as the nuc matures and with nectar coming in too, there's benefit to monitoring closely on your inspections. So when you see a lot of shiny stuff, maybe hold back on the feeding.

As @oliver90owner has said, I've done a fair bit of adding mature, capped brood (with no bees) from bigger colonies to my nucs. I've found that makes a tremendous difference to their speed of development and the more established colonies seem to easily make good on their losses. I have a couple of colonies with some brood in shallow frames; taking one of these and donating to a nuc is obviously less of a strain on resources in both directions.

 

[user 20297]

That was probably mouldy pollen. They do store it, but just the same as sugar syrup stores

I'm going to check back with that blogger and find out if that was the case; I'm sure she said something about tasting it from the frame. Then again, most things in a hive must taste sweet?

 

[Patrick1]

I've seen a reliable blog where there was photographic evidence that the bees had stored fondant as fondant!

fondant or syrup they will store it as honey