Now I really really need some help please!

[OursonAnglaise]

Have got home this evening-first thing I do is go & see the bees to see how the Snelgrove turned out!

Both hives are active.....however they have swarmed, and are sitting on an oak stump within easy ish reach.


So I had a quick look through my boxes:

Old brood box, which had the old queen looked OK, plenty of capped brood & some larvae, but I didn't see my queen, marked green so she is fairly easy to spot. All QC torn down.

New brood box; it turns out I had missed a queen cell & it has hatched. I didn't see the queen though.

So this leads me to believe that 2 weekends ago I missed the start of queen cells, and I now have virgin queens in both boxes....would you agree with this?

My second problem is that I don't have a spare nucleus/brood box for the swarm. I could get them into a cardboard box this evening, & could then go & purchase a brood box for them, or would it be best to leave them where they are until I'm set up and hope they have not gone in the time being.? I have never caught a swarm before, so I'm a little nervous.

If I capture them into a box, can I close them up(leaving some air holes, & leave them in the shade tomorrow?

 

[enrico]

Deal with the swarm first. Any box will do, put it on top of the post and gently smoke them up into it from underneath. Once they start to move stop smoking, then lift the box off and place it upside down on a board with one side lifted slightly so they can get in and out
If you have a waterproof cover of rain is promised then even better..... Go buy another hive and move them in as soon as you can. When you say all q cells torn down did you do that or did the bees?
I recon you new box and the swarm are virgins and your old queen might still be there!
E

 

[OursonAnglaise]

Thanks Enrico.....off to get the swarm now!

 

[enrico]

Check to see if your marked queen is in the swarm!

 

[Swarm]

Yes house the swarm first. I'm interested in your Snelgrove description, when I've carried out this procedure it was like a vertical AS. From the bottom up as follows
New brood box with queen on one comb, the rest foundation. Snelgrove board. Old brood box with cells reduced to one. Crownboard and roof.
The flyers return to queen below and you can bleed off extra bees using the entrances.

It sounds to me that they have swarmed with your old queen.

 

[OursonAnglaise]

Hi Swarm, it is the board less version as described by wally shadow ....have a look at the thread AS in the rain. There is a link in there.

I am just waiting for the bees to make their final ascent into my cardboard box- the stump they have chosen is particularly hard to get at as it is covered with stumps of regrow not branches. Still, we're getting there

 

[Swarm]

I think I'd have gone with a straightforward Pagden, having found the queen. That method still sounds iffy to me.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think I'd have gone with a straightforward Pagden, having found the queen. That method still sounds iffy to me.

I did two last year.
One worked the other didn't.
I think the only time I would do it again was if I couldn't find the queen and couldn't get back to the splits for a week.

 

[Poly Hive]

If you really cannot find the queen Taramov is the answer.

http://-----------------/recourses/beginner-resources/swarming-and-control-methods/taranov-swarm/

Sorry but the S method is not on my list of practical methods.

PH

 

[enrico]

Dying to know, did you get the swarm?
E

 

[Poly Hive]

If you really cannot find the queen Taramov is the answer.

Sorry but the link I wanted to put up to my site is blanked by Admin. Google taranov swarm board and the link is at the bottom of the page with my comments on it. It makes a great talking point for an Assoc apiary visit/demo.

Sorry but the Snelgrove system is not on my list of practical methods.

PH

 

[mbc]

The shaking through of a colony needed in the manipulation with the taranov board is brutish on them and I don't know of anyone who has gone for this method a second time, it is however quite clever and a good way for a smart arse to wow and amaze simple minded beginners with a description imho.

 

[OursonAnglaise]

Well I have done my best. I got about 1/3 of them into the box....started to get dark, so I have placed the box upside down in the hope that the queen is with them....waiting to see what will happen.

May have to have another go in the morning!

 

[Swarm]

Let's hope you find them all happily in the box in the morning
Good luck.

 

[Poly Hive]

Throwing names around MBC? tut.... how petty.

PH

 

[enrico]

If all else fails take a brush, hold the box underneath them and be brave, just start brushing the bees down into the box, when you have most in then do the box on the board trick, if the queen is in there the others will join her, if not they will all come out again. Bees on a post or trunk can be a real pain especially if the post has loads of green stuff on.
Good luck
E

 

[mbc]

Throwing names around MBC? tut.... how petty.

PH

Kicking the ball not the player PH, and an honest appraisal of the taranov board from my experience and knowledge of its use.
Sensitive tonight are we love?

 

[OursonAnglaise]

Hi Polyhive. Thanks for the feedback, but Snelgrove was chosen, as last weekend the weather & time was against me. I had gone from a warm spring afternoon, to a cold wet evening in a matter of hours. I asked for helps& the Snelgrove seemed to give a goo dish solution in a tight situation.

In hindsight, I possibly should have done a pagden AS as I did find the queen on the next day when I went to do with he manip, but the weather remained cool & damp, so I stuck to Snelgrove as suggested.

This last week has probably been the coldest week we have had since February so I think the swarming was held back till today, which was a warm Day (though the forecast for next week is not great).

I have looked at your taranov, & given I had not heard of it before this eve, I probably wouldn't have chosen that method due to the weather constraints last weekend. However it's good to know there is another choice & in a different situation it might have been the way to go.

 

[Chriszog]

The shaking through of a colony needed in the manipulation with the taranov board is brutish on them and I don't know of anyone who has gone for this method a second time, it is however quite clever and a good way for a smart arse to wow and amaze simple minded beginners with a description imho.

I had never heard of Taranov so made for some interesting reading although not a method I might try as a newbee, thanks for the information Polyhive.
I was however not amazed by it and do not think I nor my fellow new beekeepers on this Forum are simple minded!!!

 

[Poly Hive]

Very glad to hear it.

It is an interesting technique but not for urban situations for sure as the colony does get upset.

I am at a loss TBH as to why the Snelgrove board is still around and worse being used. Must be all the little pop holes to play with. The classic story of Snelgrove (though how true is another matter) is someone called to see him and the wife told them they would have to wait as he was catching a swarm!

The bottom line is one has to separate the brood and queen and how you achieve this is unimportant.

One simple way and does not involve queen finding is to split the hive into four. I put one open cell in with each batch in nuc boxes and leave the same on the old site in the brood box. Then when I have time to go through properly it is obvious as to which has the queen as she will be back in lay. Then when the virgins have mated I sort them out into other hives or let them run the nuc and unite the rest back. Nice and simple. The down side is it needs more kit of course but sell a nuc and that is paid for.

PH