New out Apiary but comes with a twist

[birdsandbees]

Visited a potential site for my bees to move to with enough room and forage in the area to add to the numbers, it's in a gap in what remains of a very old hedge, now just a short row of shrubby trees surrounded by a few acres of grassland with other crops and woodland bordering it, in winter it's used for grazing sheep and through the summer is used to grow a crop of Hay, the landowner says I can keep the Bees there for a rental charge of a couple of Jars of Honey.
This is the twist, the land owner lets a neighbouring farmer to use the land and to improve the hay they spray the fields with a selective herbicide, now I've read quite a bit on effects of Herbicides on bees etc and thought I could just keep them in when they spray but the landowner doesn't get notified they just turn up.
The site looks great, it's secure reasonably sheltered, easily accessed via the landowners property and virtually free of charge but I can't help worrying about the spraying.

Any thoughts welcome?

 

[masterBK]

I have been keeping bees on a farm for decades and the farmer uses selective weedkillers and never had a problem. However If bees were plants I would be concerned. Why do you expect a herbicide to affect bees other than kill plants whose flowers they might otherwise visit ?

 

[bjosephd]

How long until you would want to move your apiary in?

Herbicides I don't know about, but would err on the side of caution and keep looking? I don't know what it's like in Worcester, but here in Somerset if you get to the local pub and get chatting with the locals there's many people who would be game to have hives on their land. It would be very painful to lose your colonies to something you knew was going to happen. (but I don't know... I know nothing about HERBicides effects on bees)

I would hold fire and keep hobnobbing and 'networking'.

Also, if you do go for it... or find another apiary site where there will be sheep... with sheep, you need to make your site bomb proof. Sheep are incredibly destructive. They will scratch their arse on anything they can find, and push to eat grass or scratch their arse on somewhere 'unobtainable'. They are lovely creatures, and we have them in the orchard my hives are in, but you want to build solid solid stock fences to stop them destroying your hives like clueless bears.

 

[bjosephd]

Why do you expect a herbicide to affect bees other than kill plants whose flowers they might otherwise visit ?

It's a fair point... but herbicide in the air for a sensitive organism? I honesty don't know at that proximity?

I certainly wouldn't want a droplet of roundup in my coffee.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Looks like a decent site - don't let the handwringers discourage you. bit of a difference between a bee and a dandelion!

 

[birdsandbees]

Thanks for the input, regarding the sheep, I was thinking already that I would need sturdy stands for the hives a strap them to it but I'm now wondering whether they would allow me to put some form of fencing up around them, as I wouldn't want to turn up and find them either tipped over of damaged.
The pesticide spraying is a funny one, as has been said, it's designed to kill weeds but then that doesn't mean it's harmless to fauna, I guess that there's spraying going on all the time but at least this case it's a more specific type to kill docks etc rather than a really nasty kill anything type of weed killer.

I'll await to see if anyone comes up with more reasons not to keep them there otherwise I think I'll see f they will allow some form of ring fence and go for it.

Thanks all

 

[Obee1]

I have a similar situation - my new apiary is on a farm that sprays - but they assure me that the bees aren't in danger- in fact a local bee farmer who used to be a bee inspector has kept bees on a different part of the same farm for 10 + years with no problems.
So I'm going to cross my fingers and hope it's ok - this thread has got me a little worried about the field of sheep right next to the hives - the hedge looks decidedly scrawny and I have visions of sheep scratching their arses on my hives.

 

[Poly Hive]

My last farm had a rotation which involved some crops being sprayed 17 times in the season.

Provided they are not spraying insecticides it is not an issue, I had some lovely crops from that apiary.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'll await to see if anyone comes up with more reasons not to keep them there otherwise I think I'll see f they will allow some form of ring fence and go for it.

Thanks all

know a few around here who keep bees where there are sheep - simple barrier of temporary hurdles (the lightweight kind they use to construct sheep pens for shows and sales) seems sufficient for them - you could even try the chestnut fencing mentioned here on another thread - simple to put up and easy to move if you decide to change the hives' position.

 

[Beecarer]

the landowner doesn't get notified they just turn up.

Theres no reason the farmer couldn't arrange for them to call you and let you know when they are spraying, they don't just turn up there's a bit of preparation goes into spraying land, weather wise too... but don't hassle him about it now. Move in this year and say nothing then next year after the farmer has had some of your honey you could just ask about getting notified before hand about the spraying. You will probably see the farmer who has that land rented so over time you could say it to him if he seems approachable and not someone who would drive over you!

Ive met a good few bee keepers who all get notified when insecticides are being sprayed near their hives, most people are aware of the plight of the bees these days and will do their bit to help when asked.

 

[tonyofarr]

I would agree with the comment about sheep, we have a flock of shetland sheep and we keep our hives fenced away from them. Electric fencing is only effective with sheep when they don't have a load of fleece - ours soon learnt that they could get between the wires when their fleeces insulated them enough. Hurdles are expensive so if this was going to be a permanent apiary it would be worth investing in fencing if the farmer agreed.

It is really difficult finding a good site for bees and I find that we usually have to compromise somewhere, but a bit of fencing and asking for spraying notification doesn't sound too bad.

 

[birdsandbees]

I've been communicating with them about it today, Ive asked if I can erect some stock type fencing around the area where the Apiary will be, they don't think it will be a problem and have said they will check with the lessee of the land this week.
Looking promising and it will be nice to have the reassurance that the hives will be safe from the attentions of the sheep.

 

[bjosephd]

There seems confidence that the herbicide is probably not a problem... which is great!

However...

"I was thinking already that I would need sturdy stands for the hives a strap them to it but I'm now wondering whether they would allow me to put some form of fencing up around them"

...there simply must be a fence.

Go to your local saw mill and get some posts... enough for about 6ft intervals around your hives with enough space inside to work them.

Hopefully you can borrow a big bar and post basher...

and then add some stock fencing.

The full monty version is with a row or two of barbed wire above the stock fencing, but I don't bother (it also makes it easier to simply climb over the fence so you don't need to build a gate).

This styleee
http://www.essexfieldfencing.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/800mm-sheep-net.jpg

EDIT: aha... looks like you're on it already... and forgive me I'm giving you really obvious instructions for something you may have already done a plenty. I've just experienced the destructive nature of those clueless benign creatures. I used borrowed hurdles last year... but they are expensive and not pretty.

 

[bontbee]

...there simply must be a fence.

The full monty version is with a row or two of barbed wire above the stock fencing, but I don't bother (it also makes it easier to simply climb over the fence so you don't need to build a gate).

This styleee
http://www.essexfieldfencing.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/800mm-sheep-net.jpg

Agree, there must be a fence for sheep! But the example given looks a bit OTT if it's just sheep. Yes to barb on top if there are cattle (or horses, but some horse owners won't accept barb, so best to check). In this part of the world a run of barb is put below the sheep netting, to stop the sheep nosing underneath. It's difficult to get tension on short runs of fence, so worth bearing in mind....

You don't need to spend out on full round posts everywhere, half rounds will do for most of the run, but you should have 5-6", well secured rounds, (esp if there big livestock) at each end of the fence and each change of direction. I put the posts at less than 6' centres for short fences, because of the difficulty of getting sufficient tension on the wire.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Agree, there must be a fence for sheep! But the example given looks a bit OTT if it's just sheep. Yes to barb on top if there are cattle (or horses, but some horse owners won't accept barb, so best to check). In this part of the world a run of barb is put below the sheep netting, to stop the sheep nosing underneath. It's difficult to get tension on short runs of fence, so worth bearing in mind....

You don't need to spend out on full round posts everywhere, half rounds will do for most of the run, but you should have 5-6", well secured rounds, (esp if there big livestock) at each end of the fence and each change of direction. I put the posts at less than 6' centres for short fences, because of the difficulty of getting sufficient tension on the wire.

There's an art in driving half round posts in while keeping them vertical

 

[beeno]

Hi birdsandbees,
Sounds like you are dealing with a friendly crowd. With regard to the spraying the Control of Pesticides Regulations 1986 requires any farmer or contractor to give 48hrs notice of spraying amongst other things. You also have to have a licence to spray. Code of Practice for using Plant Protection Products is there to safeguard the environment (including bees) and human health. Some fungicides are just as harmful to bees as are pesticides, but ask what they intend to spray with so that you can find out if it is harmful to bees. Have a good season.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the Control of Pesticides Regulations 1986 requires any farmer or contractor to give 48hrs notice of spraying amongst other things.

Herbicides not pesticides or fungicides

 

[mbc]

There's not many of us fortunate enough to have apiaries near fruitful land that doesn't get sprayed with something or other. Salisbury plain maybe?

 

[bontbee]

There's an art in driving half round posts in while keeping them vertical

Then I must be an artist!!

 

[birdsandbees]

Thanks for all the advice, it's much appreciated, the land owner is contacting the farmer that rents the land this week to check a few things for me, if all goes well I'll be erecting a fence around the area that will become the Apiary, I'll ensure it has sufficient posts and is big enough to allow for future expansion.
I'll let you know how it goes,

Regards