New Honey regs

[Pete D]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/1348/made

 

[enrico]

The most interesting bit in that was that it says tea tree and manuka are not the same plant! Always thought they were!
E

 

[itma]

This is actually IMPORTANT.

These new Regs came into force last week (but the labelling regulation changes don't affect any honey already labelled before then).


One obvious change is that "Cut Comb" Honey must now be labelled as
"Cut Comb in Honey"
Its a small pedantic point, but it is a perfectly clear one.

Something else I note is that "anyone trading in honey" must now label with the country of origin.
Previously, there was a seeming exemption for producer-direct-to-consumer sales (as the country was then implicit). Looks like that one is clarified - country needs to be there, always.

I don't think there's any change in the technical characteristics specifications that would affect UK-produced honey.

Frankly, I haven't had time to get my head around the references to the new EU directive, but I suspect that the devils lie in that detail.

Has anyone had any sort of official guidance on the new Regs?

 

[Beanwood]

Can anyone help me with why electrical conductivity is important please? I'm really hoping I don't have to measure it!

 

[psafloyd]

I don't understand the differentiation of cut comb.

If it applies only to whole frames or sections, then no comb has been cut to produce it.

Does it simply mean that if you produce cut comb sections (by use of a cutter) AND add some of the honey as makeweight, it then becomes cut comb in honey (ie honey added) and chunk if a piece of comb floating in honey?

Any ideas?

Does that mean cut comb is

This is actually IMPORTANT.

These new Regs came into force last week (but the labelling regulation changes don't affect any honey already labelled before then).


One obvious change is that "Cut Comb" Honey must now be labelled as
"Cut Comb in Honey"
Its a small pedantic point, but it is a perfectly clear one.

Something else I note is that "anyone trading in honey" must now label with the country of origin.
Previously, there was a seeming exemption for producer-direct-to-consumer sales (as the country was then implicit). Looks like that one is clarified - country needs to be there, always.

I don't think there's any change in the technical characteristics specifications that would affect UK-produced honey.

Frankly, I haven't had time to get my head around the references to the new EU directive, but I suspect that the devils lie in that detail.

Has anyone had any sort of official guidance on the new Regs?

 

[Erichalfbee]

ahhhh
Citation, commencement and application

1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Honey (England) Regulations 2015 and come into force on 24th June 2015.

(2) These Regulations apply in England only.


That's me off the hook, then

 

[Gilberdyke John]

ahhhh
Citation, commencement and application

1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Honey (England) Regulations 2015 and come into force on 24th June 2015.

(2) These Regulations apply in England only.


That's me off the hook, then

Home rule for Yorkshire?

 

[itma]

Can anyone help me with why electrical conductivity is important please? I'm really hoping I don't have to measure it!

You don't have to measure it.
Trading Standards might.
It is a measure of acidity and mineral content.
Checking the conductivity is much easier than incinerating it and weighing the residual ash.

I don't understand the differentiation of cut comb.

If it applies only to whole frames or sections, then no comb has been cut to produce it.

Does it simply mean that if you produce cut comb sections (by use of a cutter) AND add some of the honey as makeweight, it then becomes cut comb in honey (ie honey added) and chunk if a piece of comb floating in honey?

Any ideas?

There are reserved descriptions for
"comb honey" (uncut)
"cut comb in honey" (presumed more comb than loose honey) and
"chunk honey" (more honey than chunks).

The only change there is that "cut comb" isn't allowed (on its own) any more, it needs to be called "cut comb in honey".

ahhhh
Citation, commencement and application

1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Honey (England) Regulations 2015 and come into force on 24th June 2015.

(2) These Regulations apply in England only.


That's me off the hook, then

I think you'll find that there's another hook, specifically targeting Wales ... ah, the wonders of devolution!



I'm far from the only one trying to puzzle out the possible influence of the new EU Regulation.

Trading Standards UK website has this on a Gloucestershire TS (updated June 2015 for the new Regs) webpage
http://www.tradingstandards.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=*BADV091-1001.txt

Nutrition labelling

There seems to be some confusion amongst {honey} packers as to whether or not this is required. Nutrition labelling is currently optional unless a claim is made, but if provided it must follow one of the formats in EU Regulation (EU) No 1169/2011 on the provision of food information to consumers. The values can be calculated using analysis or using tables.
...
This information is intended for guidance; only the courts can give an authoritative interpretation of the law.

Great isn't it when Trading Standards look to the honey industry for guidance on what the regs require!

 

[Thymallus]

One obvious change is that "Cut Comb" Honey must now be labelled as
"Cut Comb in Honey"
Its a small pedantic point, but it is a perfectly clear one.

Not that clear....I read it as applying when you do honey with chunks of cut comb in it it has to be named as "chunk honey" or "cut comb in honey". I didn't notice any differences in the cut comb regs.
I think you may be confusing the comb with chunk honey ....although I have been know to wrong. The bit I read said this.

Comb honey

9.—(1) A person trading in a comb honey must use the name “comb honey” in trade as the name of the product.

(2) A person must not use the name “comb honey” in trade as the name of a product if the product is not comb honey.

Chunk honey and cut comb in honey

10.—(1) A person trading in a honey that contains one or more pieces of comb honey must use the name “chunk honey” or “cut comb in honey” in trade as the name of the product.

(2) A person must not use the name “chunk honey” or “cut comb in honey” in trade as the name of a product if the product does not contain one or more pieces of comb honey.

 

[itma]

Not that clear....I read it as applying when you do honey with chunks of cut comb in it it has to be named as "chunk honey" or "cut comb in honey". I didn't notice any differences in the cut comb regs.
...

You have missed my point entirely.
There aren't ANY "cut comb regs"

The 2003 Regs, in Schedule 1, at line 4b listed the "reserved description" of "cut comb honey".

In the 2015 Regs, there is NO SUCH reserved description.
It has been removed from the list!
Instead a NEW (not in the 2003 Regs) reserved description "cut comb in honey" appears in the list in Part 3, Para 16, section 5(e).

Note that un-cut comb (full comb or sections) is still to be called "comb honey".

Simply, you cannot continue labelling Cut Comb Honey as that.
The 'name of the food' (which is required to be on the label) has been changed to be "cut comb in honey".

While this is simpler for sales (now you can legally and ethically make up the package weight with runny honey), it looks like creating a sharper difference between the requirements for selling and showing.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I didn't notice any differences in the cut comb regs.
I think you may be confusing the comb with chunk honey ....although I have been know to wrong. .

The bit I read said this

“chunk honey” and “cut comb in honey” mean honeys which contain one or more pieces of comb honey;

“comb honey” means honey stored by bees in the cells of freshly built broodless combs or thin comb foundation sheets made solely of beeswax and sold in sealed whole combs or sections of such combs;​

The document is a Statutory Instrument. SIs are used to amend or update or primary (existing) legislation. Where there are no new regs about one or more type of honey you need to refer to the original legislation contained in Food Safety Act 1990 and/or any SIs pre-dating this 2015 one.

 

[For want of a better word]

Personally I think this is a another bland bit of legislation typical of the useless Tory misunderstanding of how the UK people really want things to work!

Don't blame me .... was one of the majority 67% who were sensible enough not to vote for them...................
Democracy??

IS Cornwall classed as England ???


Yeghes da

 

[Hivemaker.]

means honey stored by bees in the cells of freshly built broodless combs​

How freshly built does the comb need to be, week old, six months?... there would be a problem storing the honey in any comb cells containing brood anyway, how do they think that would be possible.​

 

[For want of a better word]

How freshly built does the comb need to be, week old, six months?... there would be a problem storing the honey in any comb cells containing brood anyway, how do they think that would be possible.

Pete ol M8,,, what makes you come to the conclusion they think ???

Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

You have missed my point entirely.
There aren't ANY "cut comb regs"
changed[/I] to be "cut comb in honey".

While this is simpler for sales (now you can legally and ethically make up the package weight with runny honey), it looks like creating a sharper difference between the requirements for selling and showing.

Look I don't want to start world war three over this, but my reading of "comb honey” means honey stored by bees in the cells of freshly built broodless combs or thin comb foundation sheets made solely of beeswax and sold in sealed whole combs or sections of such combs"
Now if I cut some comb this a section of that whole comb. Not a section as we think of as being uncut and made in weird boxes.
The other regs seem to apply to honey with chunks of cut comb in it.
chunk honey” and “cut comb in honey” mean honeys which contain one or more pieces of comb honey;

This surely applies to those who sell jars of honey with a bit of cut comb in the bottom of it....because if it doesn't they have been missed out from the regulations.
I'm happy to be corrected, but can't see where I'm misinterpreting the new regs.

 

[wessexmario]

or put another way...

comb honey would be sold in a box,
whereas cut comb in honey and chunk honey would be sold in a jar.

 

[Thymallus]

or put another way...

comb honey would be sold in a box,
whereas cut comb in honey and chunk honey would be sold in a jar.

If I understand it, which is obviously up for question, as long as "Cut comb honey" has the words "comb honey" there would be nothing incorrect as describing it as "cut comb honey", whereas "cut comb in honey" is reffering to the jars with chunks in. Otherwise there is no legislation for that type of honey.


Okay< I'm now thoroughly confused.

 

[MuswellMetro]

according to Mr Ralph NDB it is Produce of UK as that is the EU state/country is you sell retail under the old regs but produce of england/scotland /cornwall was ok for direct sales

so i expect it is produce of UK for all sales now

 

[wessexmario]

I can't see that there would be a problem with "Produce of England", seeing as the regulations themselves are applicable to honey products being sold in one particular country... England.

1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Honey (England) Regulations 2015 and come into force on 24th June 2015.

(2) These Regulations apply in England only.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

according to Mr Ralph NDB it is Produce of UK as that is the EU state/country is you sell retail under the old regs but produce of england/scotland /cornwall was ok for direct sales

so i expect it is produce of UK for all sales now

You can poke that right up!