Multiple capped QC help plz

[Bakerbee]

I’ve been waiting on Royal Mail to deliver new brood foundations and frames to take my last bursting colony to double brood. Today is the first day it’s not been raining to get in and get them onto double. I knew at last inspection time was of the essence. So today have found heaving colony of bees with multiple capped QC and other signs of swarming. Drones, no fresh eggs, bees bums up feeding on honey and my queen happily found. I’ve shut them up to contemplate my best course of action and to ask more experienced bees the best way forward, suggestions please greatfully
received.

 

[For want of a better word]

Prepare some bait hives?

 

[Ian123]

Well theres 50 differnet versions of swarm control you could do, or you could simply go through and break down any qcells and add your new brood box, your lucky the queens still there. At the very least i would take a nuc out with a capped cell and maybe 2 other frames of capped brood, shake in another couple of frames of bees and 1 frame with a decent amount of stores, obviously may need to find queen and place in a safe place whilst shaking any other frames, and do not shake the frame with qcell on you wish to keep. Thats relatively straight forward or you could just do an artificial swarm if you have enough equipment the choices are endless. Am sure others will be along with suggestions.Did you get your frames? have you got a nuc box or 2. Once they have got capped cells they can be rather set on the idea so just breaking the cells down alone may not be enough

 

[Bakerbee]

Ok as i was losing the warmth of the day i came inside had a cuppa and read up on artificial swarm methods.

So please do comment on what ive done. I set up a new hive about 6 feet away with entrance direction changed. I placed all brood frames and most stores into this new position. While transferring i shook off bees and knocked down all qc except 2 fat capped ones. Popped some syrup on just in case their stores werent enough and closed them up. On original site i put a frame of stores a frame of brood with queen on it and filled the rest up with foundation. Then put some syrup on and closed them up.

I am a little confused as to what happens next. Could anyone advise me please?

I caught my other buckfast hive in time to go to double brood and they are happy with no signs of swarming but had run out of equipment to do the 2nd colony(todays swarmy lot)and had to wait for an order of frames and foundation arrived then till weather cleared to get in there, hence today.

I dont really want to increase the amount of colonies i run so how do i proceed from here. Can i recombine onto double brood as originally desired and if so when? The as yet unemerged vq is from a lovely queen(coming up a year herself) with great temperament. Would anyone want her ?
All advice greatfully recieved. Thanks

 

[Murox]

You wait . Some bees will go back to original location. Its more usual to move queen away to new site to mimic what they would do naturally. Double check in a few days for Qcells in the queen-right hive. Similarly check new hive as well. Yes you could recombine later when your new colony is hopelessly queen-less.If you really don't want another colony - after the virgin has started laying pop her into a nucleus and sell it. Wait til all brood has developed and unite . Sure to be another dozen ways to do similar.

 

[enrico]

What you have done is fine. You need to think why you have done it! You have replicated a swarm. The queen is on the original site with an empty hive, no brood, but because all the bees that fly will return to that original site she will soon have a hive full of old flying bees. This is close to swarm conditions. So the queen thinks she has swarmed. Meanwhile in the old hive on the new site the hive has lost its queen and all the flyers. They are left with all the brood, young bees and a queen cell or two. So they also think they have swarmed!
That's the theory behind it. What you have to be prepared for is that the old queen may swarm anyway. And the old hive on the new site may swarm with the first virgin out.....so put up a bait box or two and keep your fingers crossed. Well done for doing your first A S . The learning curve is officially less steep
E

 

[Bakerbee]

Thanks everyone. I shall watch wait and set a bait hive or two.

 

[Bakerbee]

As i want to combine them onto double brood eventually. Now they are separated, queen flyers in one brood and nurse in other. Could i demaree them if i knocked down the 2 capped qc i left in the separated brood one? My reason for asking is i dont want an increase, could i in a few weeks if things have settled, regig them back into double brood.

 

[colinc]

To this point a demeree is the same as what you have done. It’s just a demeree saves a roof and floor. Wait for them to settle and the queen less side to raise a queen. If they have space then swarm fever should be gone and then you can select a queen to squish or sell and recombine.

 

[Hivemaker.]

To this point a demeree is the same as what you have done.

No, it's not.

 

[colinc]

No, it's not.

I mean just separating queen and brood but yes I realise a demeree is preemptive usually rather than used as an AS. The equipment set up for a demeree will work in an AS though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Murox]

To this point a demeree is the same as what you have done. It’s just a demeree saves a roof and floor. Wait for them to settle and the queen less side to raise a queen. If they have space then swarm fever should be gone and then you can select a queen to squish or sell and recombine.

Not really - I have always thought of “Demaree”, unlike swarm controls, as a pre-emptive 'strike' prior to any queen cells being built putting the keeper in the driving seat to steer the colony.

 

[For want of a better word]

Well theres 50 differnet versions of swarm control

42... the others are not swarm control as they involve removal of the queen?

 

[Bakerbee]

Could you explain the differences please Hivemaker, trying to expand my understanding

 

[Murox]

42... the others are not swarm control as they involve removal of the queen?

but I expect they all involve the separation of queen from brood.

 

[colinc]

As stated above understanding the separation of queen and flying bees from brood is key. How you achieve that is immaterial. Besides all of that, in the “beginners section” a blunt unexplained “no it’s not” answer helps no one and certainly not the OP.

I haven’t been posting on here for ages and now I realise why. Forums should be for sharing knowledge and educating, not just for pedants and trolls to make themselves feel better by picking on others from behind their keyboard.

 

[Beefriendly]

but I expect they all involve the separation of queen from brood.

Nope, check out Snelgrove method II. Queen, brood and queen cells all go in same top box. .....

 

[Bakerbee]

Ok so to those who have read this thread from beginning. Could i have when i saw how full my colony was instead of waiting for equipment to arrive split them in a vertical demaree style with qe and supers in between to delay the production of swarm cells? I dont really want another new queen as mine is not even a year old yet and so calm. I thought of now they are split to stack them demaree style with original q and flyers on bottom with frame of eggs frame stores and rest new foundation. Then qe. Then supers. Then brood with nurse bees on top who would be potentially without qc as i would knock them back. Id rather get rod of capped qc before they emerge so i dont run risk of vq swarming or have to cull new queens as i want to keep my original queen. Is there a downside to this idea that im ignorant of. If there is i will allow them to raise the new queen and give away when i recombine.. thank you for your responses im just trying to learn whats best especially as im away in may for 16 days on my honeymoon.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Could you explain the differences please Hivemaker, trying to expand my understanding

In a Demaree the bees are not separated, the brood or as much as possible is in the top brood box, the queen is in the bottom box with as much laying space as possible, the bees still have access through the queen excluder/s, in a Pagden artificial swarm they are completely separated, which is what you have done, can also be done vertical using less equipment, just a board with side entrance.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

In a Demaree the bees are not separated, the brood or as much as possible is in the top brood box, the queen is in the bottom box with as much laying space as possible, the bees still have access through the queen excluder/s, in a Pagden artificial swarm they are completely separated, which is what you have done, can also be done vertical using less equipment, just a board with side entrance.

Understand the Demaree is normally enacted before the key swarm signs of occupied QCs...But if you used it for AS ie when there are occupied QCs, do you knock down all but 1 (or 2) cells and leave in the upper "mostly brood box" and not the lower "hardly brood but with Queen" box?

I am hoping this sentence is correct as the logic is starting to dawn on this novice with more clarity if it so....

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk