Laying workers/failed queen? and queen cells?

[Fritillary]

Hello - Can anyone tell me whether a colony will try to draw queen cells either using their own duff laying worker eggs - or eggs from a drone laying queen? - Or is the presence of a few charged queen cells telling me they definitely do have a mated queen in there, if a failing one?

- This is a post-split situation. (One of the queen cells looks very odd - very long, but still has a larva in it. Others look more usual.) Last week there were some apparently good, single eggs, down at the bottom of cells, but otherwise scatterings of two or three in cells, and no queen cells. As they draw their own comb (no foundation) and the cell size is a bit variable it's not the first time I've wondered if the cells were wide enough for workers to lay eggs right down at the base. Left it a week in the hope that this was a new queen sorting herself out, but this week, all developing larvae look to be drones and queen cells have appeared. Could see no queen, despite looking, but that's not unusual!

 

[snelgrove]

Hello - Can anyone tell me whether a colony will try to draw queen cells either using their own duff laying worker eggs - or eggs from a drone laying queen? - Or is the presence of a few charged queen cells telling me they definitely do have a mated queen in there, if a failing one?

- This is a post-split situation. (One of the queen cells looks very odd - very long, but still has a larva in it. Others look more usual.) Last week there were some apparently good, single eggs, down at the bottom of cells, but otherwise scatterings of two or three in cells, and no queen cells. As they draw their own comb (no foundation) and the cell size is a bit variable it's not the first time I've wondered if the cells were wide enough for workers to lay eggs right down at the base. Left it a week in the hope that this was a new queen sorting herself out, but this week, all developing larvae look to be drones and queen cells have appeared. Could see no queen, despite looking, but that's not unusual!

sounds like you got laying workers, scattered eggs in cells and an attempt to raise a queen from these is a good indication of laying workers. r the bees fanning on the face of the comb?

 

[Fritillary]

Thank you. I didn't notice fanning, no. I put in some comb with reliable eggs from another colony - but without doing anything about the apparent queen cells, until I'd asked for advice. Will they go ahead and use the new decent eggs do you think without my doing anything more, or should I remove the queen cells they've drawn?

 

[snelgrove]

Thank you. I didn't notice fanning, no. I put in some comb with reliable eggs from another colony - but without doing anything about the apparent queen cells, until I'd asked for advice. Will they go ahead and use the new decent eggs do you think without my doing anything more, or should I remove the queen cells they've drawn?

remove the queen cells definately, use a cell from the eggs you introduced if there are plenty of bees

 

[Finman]

.
Give from another hive a larva comb. Bees starts to rear Queen cells at once.
Bees cap emergency cells in few days. Meanwhile order a laying Queen and give it to the hive.

 

[rickyd20]

Can you sort out a laying worker hive by giving it capped queen cells?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can you sort out a laying worker hive by giving it capped queen cells?

No. They think they have a queen already.

 

[Fritillary]

No. They think they have a queen already.

That's why I asked the initial question tho' - the bees obviously aren't happy with what's happening in there, I thought, else they wouldn't be drawing out queen cells - and do laying workers act like that?

And was wondering then also: do bees ever draw queen cells around unfertilised/drone eggs, whether a failing, drone-laying queen's or laying workers' ? (And if they do, and even if it sounds as though laying workers have done that here: wouldn't they sense the difference between fertilised and unfertilised eggs, so that adding a frame with eggs as I did - even if these are laying workers, wouldn't they prefer the introduced fertilised eggs to the ones they've already used, and pull down the queen cells they've already drawn?)

 

[Hivemaker.]

Can you sort out a laying worker hive by giving it capped queen cells?

Most times, yes, and there is no need to change the combs that have had laying workers laying in them.

 

[Madge]

...

- This is a post-split situation. ... Last week there were some apparently good, single eggs, down at the bottom of cells, but otherwise scatterings of two or three in cells, and no queen cells. ...

I'm not so sure that you do have laying workers. You might just have a young queen (or perhaps a young failing queen).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Most times, yes, and there is no need to change the combs that have had laying workers laying in them.

Really?
So if you put a capped queen cell in they don't break it down?

 

[Michael Palmer]

Most times, yes, and there is no need to change the combs that have had laying workers laying in them.

I agree with HM. Most times LW colonies will accept a ripe queen cell.

 

[rickyd20]

Really?
So if you put a capped queen cell in they don't break it down?

I gave a laying worker nuc 2 capped QCs about a week ago and they are still intact. This was after shaking out the bees a distance away.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I gave a laying worker nuc 2 capped QCs about a week ago and they are still intact. This was after shaking out the bees a distance away.

Did you shake the bees out and leave the original nuc box in situ?
If you did they would all just return....laying workers as well.

The point of shaking out is that the bees find a new home.

What HM and Michael Palmer say.... infer...unless I am on a different planet today...is that there is no need to shake out.

I agree with HM. Most times LW colonies will accept a ripe queen cell.

Well thanks HM and Michael. I never knew that and it's a really useful bit of information.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Unfortunately, not all of us have a ready supply of queen cells

 

[Finman]

.
When bees are desperately queenless, how they can think that they have Queen already? That is the old fairytale, that hive has worker Queen.

Bees are desperate and they try to rear queen from drone larva.


I have given queens to worker layers without problems. But first I have offered some queen which I am going to squeeze however.

 

[Ely]

Most times, yes, and there is no need to change the combs that have had laying workers laying in them.

Will they also accept an introduced mated queen?

 

[Finman]

Will they also accept an introduced mated queen?

They sure do, but sometimes there are difficulties.
.

 

[Finman]

Diuple

.

 

[Fritillary]

.
When bees are desperately queenless, how they can think that they have Queen already? That is the old fairytale, that hive has worker Queen.

Bees are desperate and they try to rear queen from drone larva.

- That was what I hoped to find out when I posted the question: ie The presence of queen cells doesn't tell you that they have a queen which laid fertilised eggs in there at some point - or indeed any queen at all.

- What does a royally fed drone look like? "King Bee"? - or portly "Prince Regent Bee" perhaps!

(Many thanks for answers to original question and advice. Glad I asked, as the thread has very interesting and useful information!)