Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[Repwoc]

Not sure they are impotent, they have the regulations and 2017 guidelines so they have the "tools" they need. I guess the possible varied response is largely dependent on local resources and priorities. Certainly the TSO I spoke to yesterday said they will investigate complaints and take action on anyone with Raw on the label that is reported. all TS have to at least look into a complaint but if you are busy with illegally imported booze, fags and hazardous knock off electrical appliances etc and increased workload due to imports and exports procedures changing. Where does a disgruntled beekeeper come on the priority list. Its a really niche compliant that most people are not bothered with, 90% of honey consumed is imported mass produced stuff which suggest 9/10 consumers are pretty apathetic towards honey. Of the remaining 10% the producers are split over the raw issue and those customers who buy in the 10% are probably savvy enough to value the product without the need for claims. Using it is not posing a health risk or doing harm and not costing the country in terms of lost revenue due to fraud etc so interms of non compliance with regulations is pretty low down the list. Those who want to use it presumably think it will direct more customers and sales to them, mainly via search engines. But I doubt many of those will be converts from supermarket stuff but more likley from another small producers and possibly more local. Lets not think this is a way of taking on the imports it's just a marketing tool that some want to use for their benifit. By all means if you think it's unfair that some use it and some get caught out using it either lobby for it to change or report those you see using it. Quality local honey should not and does not need gimicks.

I'm fairly confident that TS are capable of harassing hobby and small scale honey producers about words on their labels. What I meant was their apparent impotence when it comes to bringing the supermarkets to heel when they have evidence of honey fraud.

 

[PeaBee]

I'm fairly confident that TS are capable of harassing hobby and small scale honey producers about words on their labels. What I meant was their apparent impotence when it comes to bringing the supermarkets to heel when they have evidence of honey fraud.

Pretty sure they will respond in the same way to any complaint, just that beekeepers seem to spend more energy and time infighting and reporting each other than the public do complaining about the use of the word raw on supermarket honey. TSO probably have better things to harass than beekeepers so no need for a persecution complex . As far as the TSO I spoke to was aware there have been no complaints raised about supermarkets etc. Or certainly none that have required action (they could just have adjusted agree to quietly change the labels and it never gets into the public domain).
Unlike the adulterated honey Tesco case that they were able to defend by questioning the validity of the tests the labeling issue is more straight forward and a court would have to decide if it was misleading or not. Just think if someone did report a large company for using Raw and it went to court (if the company thought it worth defending) and won the case law would be established and Raw could be used and no need for a petition. Maybe that's the tactic that those that want to use raw should adopt.

 

[user 20297]

Of course they can - it means 'Wesh Honey'
But most around here just ask the shopkeeper for Brynmair honey

.......but is that an approved word?

 

[Sanntos]

Anyone of hundreds of beekeepers can write "Mel Cymreig" on their label; it's special, but not as special as,
"Mil Albannach", ("Scottish Honey").

OK, sorry, looked like a name to me

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.......but is that an approved word?

As I'm one of the officers who does the sense checking and approval of translations for the Home Office...................................

 

[user 20297]

OK, sorry, looked like a name to me

No....you're right...Brynmair is an actual name...I was being obtuse for a change.

 

[Patrick1]

Totally agree. Unfortunately, I think all we can do is complain to TS and they seem to be impotent when dealing with the perpetrators.

Well lets crank it up, report local TS to the minister Victoria Prentis MP

 

[Murox]

Why not have a movement like red tractor! Obviously a bee logo with a tag line of one or two words ?

Has anyone or an organisation asked Red Tractor if producers that meet their criteria can utilise the symbol and logo? After all their logos can only be used on food and drink that has been produced, packed, stored and transported in the UK - is honey a food?

 

[Patrick1]

Good point, anyone know anyone, or who to ask ?

 

[Anduril]

Good point, anyone know anyone, or who to ask ?

https://redtractor.org.uk/

 

[Finman]

When everyone uses raw honey, they cannot sell honey better that today. Who heck believe that raw word.

 

[Erichalfbee]

https://assurance.redtractor.org.uk/about-red-tractor/how-red-tractor-assurance-works/No certification body for honey though

 

[Murox]

https://assurance.redtractor.org.uk/about-red-tractor/how-red-tractor-assurance-works/No certification body for honey though

No there isn't is there - perhaps that is something the BFA should be asking questions about, as it would be of potential benefit to larger producers rather than hobbyists.

 

[Murox]

When everyone uses raw honey, they cannot sell honey better that today. Who heck believe that raw word.

Jo Public.

 

[PeaBee]

No there isn't is there - perhaps that is something the BFA should be asking questions about, as it would be of potential benefit to larger producers rather than hobbyists.

The accreditation process for Red Tractor is quite onerous from what farmers have told me. Not sure many would want to go through it unless there is a significant benefit. Sont think want audits on where I store Ox Acid or calibration records for my warming cabinet and api melter just to have a meaningless word or a red tractor on my label.

 

[Murox]

The accreditation process for Red Tractor is quite onerous from what farmers have told me. Not sure many would want to go through it unless there is a significant benefit. Sont think want audits on where I store Ox Acid or calibration records for my warming cabinet and api melter just to have a meaningless word or a red tractor on my label.

The benefits right now are unknown as none use the system, similarly drawbacks can only be hearsay or speculative since no criteria exist for honey producers accreditation - hence "perhaps that is something the BFA should be asking questions about" - an opportunity rather than a burden surely?

 

[Wilco]

The benefits right now are unknown as none use the system, similarly drawbacks can only be hearsay or speculative since no criteria exist for honey producers accreditation - hence "perhaps that is something the BFA should be asking questions about" - an opportunity rather than a burden surely?

No, they can be deduced. Accreditation schemes are a double edged sword, they start off as good for a few top level producers then become a rod for everyone to be beaten with. It will not protect us in the long run, we need something much better.

Look at industries which do have Red Tractor. It's now basically mandatory to have it if you want to sell to supermarkets as a UK producer as none will buy if you're not. On top of UK welfare regs which are some of the best in the world (still not perfect in some sectors).

I've seen Red Tractor approved farms, on some it doesn't amount to much and is basically box ticking. Those producers which want high standards for the sake of high standards are far above the Red Tractor scheme anyway or are small scale selling direct to consumer so it's irrelevant or cost prohibitive. The main ones benefitting are the auditing/accreditation companies charging fees for it. Not the farmer, not the animals.

The UK industries with Red Tractor are not protected from cheaper foreign imports produced to lower (welfare) standards. Why would honey be(e)?

We have a decent legal framework for defining honey, we just need to enforce it. IMO, the best solution would be to make it a legal requirement for all food imported to be produced to existing UK standards (possible exception for specific regional produce with protected production methods). This will never happen. This government had a chance to do it, the farmers desperately campaigned for it but were ignored. I have very strong views on that.

 

[Anduril]

Bureaucrasy is the art of making the possible impossible.

 

[Newbeeneil]

No, they can be deduced. Accreditation schemes are a double edged sword, they start off as good for a few top level producers then become a rod for everyone to be beaten with. It will not protect us in the long run, we need something much better.

Look at industries which do have Red Tractor. It's now basically mandatory to have it if you want to sell to supermarkets as a UK producer as none will buy if you're not. On top of UK welfare regs which are some of the best in the world (still not perfect in some sectors).

I've seen Red Tractor approved farms, on some it doesn't amount to much and is basically box ticking. Those producers which want high standards for the sake of high standards are far above the Red Tractor scheme anyway or are small scale selling direct to consumer so it's irrelevant or cost prohibitive. The main ones benefitting are the auditing/accreditation companies charging fees for it. Not the farmer, not the animals.

The UK industries with Red Tractor are not protected from cheaper foreign imports produced to lower (welfare) standards. Why would honey be(e)?

We have a decent legal framework for defining honey, we just need to enforce it. IMO, the best solution would be to make it a legal requirement for all food imported to be produced to existing UK standards (possible exception for specific regional produce with protected production methods). This will never happen. This government had a chance to do it, the farmers desperately campaigned for it but were ignored. I have very strong views on that.

I agree, but if we required the Chinese beekeepers to comply with our regulations the supermarket shelves would be empty! If, as pointed out in another thread, the UK can only satisfy 5% of UK demand.

 

[Wilco]

I agree, but if we required the Chinese beekeepers to comply with our regulations the supermarket shelves would be empty! If, as pointed out in another thread, the UK can only satisfy 5% of UK demand.

I'm not too worried about that TBH... I'd rather have a limited amount of real product than unlimited amount of fakes depressing prices (and there are other countries which produce a real honey surplus). Supply and demand would even out- if policed properly the consequent increased value of honey in the UK would make it more attractive to producers importing to UK so they'd prefer to sell to the UK than other markets as well as us getting more for our honey. Nothing wrong with importing if it's genuine product IMO but not keen on fraud.