Is it too soon to add a super?

[BeeBo]

The weather has been mostly warm and sunny for the past week + and the bees are very active, certainly bringing in masses of pollen. They have consumed over a kg of fondant on each hive in just over three weeks. I haven't inspected yet as advice here seems to be leave it until end of March at least. Still top insulated.
They are both brood and a half.
Should I wait until the hives have been fully inspected before putting on a super? Does the risk of them getting cold outweigh the space issue? I had a very early swarm last year ( not this early but it was only about four weeks into the start of the warm weather which was late last year) so keen to do all I can to stop this happening again.

 

[Heather]

Difficult to tell on that history. Really needs an inspection.

If warm still in your area, I would have quick peek. Yes, usually leave in March relying on hefting and judging fondant uptake... but ignore title of month.. this month is different for me.. I have never put a super on before this early, but have on one hive this year.
I would look, and if bees wall to wall, and with 4-5 frames of brood, then add a super. If undrawn super, leave QE out for 1 week to encourage them up, but if drawn foundation, use QE immediately.

Personally I don't like brood and half as makes inspections messy. A rare chance.. but may damage the queen, and crush bees causing any disease spread.
If old foundation in both sections and both areas full of bees I would transfer them all to 14x12 (although a little heavier to inspect).
You may find they are all just in brood box and super used and empty. I would remove the super reducing them to one box.

But others will prob disagree.. the joy of the forum.
And weather may cool in next week.. we had snow here last year. The joy of the UK

 

[Chris B]

Yesterday I found a colony with about 15lb of fresh wild comb upstairs in the feeder. It hadn't been fed since last autumn. This was the extreme but there are an awful lot of colonies desperate for space at the moment. I am sure I'm not alone in this.

So the answer is you need to take a look. Its as much about giving space for the bees as room for honey storage. You have brood and a half so chances are you'll be okay but you never know. It's nothing to lift the crownboard to assess bee numbers and space. No need for a full brood inspection.

 

[enrico]

My advice would be to think about adding the super under the bb without any QE . The weather is likely to go cold again, the heat will need to be in the bb. If they need more room they will expand down. They will not lose heat if it goes cold, you can always change it when summer is here to above the bb if you want. This is the sort of year when thinking outside the box may help!
E

 

[BeeBo]

My advice would be to think about adding the super under the bb without any QE . The weather is likely to go cold again, the heat will need to be in the bb. If they need more room they will expand down. They will not lose heat if it goes cold, you can always change it when summer is here to above the bb if you want. This is the sort of year when thinking outside the box may help!
E

Thank you for this. Please would you explain the reasoning so I can understand the plan going forward. There is already a super (shallow, nadir or whatever the correct term) under the deep brood box so my understanding of your advice is to put another super between the two existing boxes to let them lay in it? With drawn or drawn foundation?

 

[enrico]

If they are on brood and a half, which you never mentioned in the original post then I would suggest they have plenty of room for this time of the year. If you honestly believe they are stuffed for room then you COULD add a super underneath for the moment as an emergency measure.remember that bees are emerging from brood all the time which gives the queen more room to lay. I think you need to hang on for warmer weather before you add another super above.
If you do decide to add another super below then I would add it below both box's you already have in place. All you are doing is trying to give more room but you don't want to create a vast open space above the main brood body, if you do they will struggle to heat it when the temperatures plummet next week!
If you do add another super underneath, when the weather is right for a super above just make sure the queen is not in it and move it over the excluder, any brood will emerge and they will start to use it like a normal super..... Once again I must say I cannot believe you are that stuffed for space in a brood and a half! Take care.
E

 

[Chris B]

Once again I must say I cannot believe you are that stuffed for space in a brood and a half! Take care.
E

It's a WBC. Well insulated but smaller than a National and he's in Devon.
Bees are seriously advanced this year and it's not just me. There are great big buds on the rape, and you can almost see it growing before your eyes. Nectar has been coming in strongly anyway. Reports of a swarm already in Cambridge and the OP's bees are prone to early swarming. Worth at least taking a look don't you think?

As for putting a super underneath instead of above, I don't totally disagree with your reason, but I think you've got your priorities wrong. If bees need space then keeping warm really is the least of their worries, even if the temperature drops a bit. I'd be more concerned about switching out the existing super, unless the intention is to run brood and a half all season. Ease of management should come to the top of the list now and inviting the queen to lay across 3 boxes is not going to make things easy.

 

[Skyhook]

Don't try to keep bees by the calendar. A lot of people say not to inspect before April- 2 years ago most peoples bees were swarming by then!

I carried out my 3rd inspection and a combine at the weekend. All colonies are strong, a couple with brood on 5 and one with brood on 8, and might be about to get a super- the temperatures look likely to dip at the end of the week, but only briefly, and with plenty of top insulation they should be ok. Otherwise, another week of this and they'l be swarming.

I should add that I have drawn supers- I think they might struggle to draw foundation; and below the BB I think they'd really struggle.

 

[Pete D]

I added supers above QE to 5 colonies yesterday out of 10 I looked at, 3 of these were 14x12 the other 2 std nationals. They needed space, the supers were all drawn comb and the amount of bees and sealed brood prompted my decision. The weather looks cooler next week but I dont think it will hold these bees back.
For me its a hive by hive decision, not calendar based or weather based.

As Chris, not sure what it was but plenty of nectar in the frames which i hope they will now move upstairs.

 

[Jed D]

It's nice to come home and read this... as after yesterdays inspection I was in two minds about what I had done..

We had one Hive left with a super underneath. ( over wintered like this ).
The super is now on top, above a Q/E !!!!

While there is only 5/6 frames with brood on , it just seemed stuffed with Bee's. Even at midday...

As we don't want brood an a half. And the super had just a bit of food in , it seemed to make sence to pop the super on top.
I am concerned about the weather next week. Turning cold again.
However , they just seemed to need the space.

The super is full of drawn comb and has another one on top , full of insulation.

If they carry on expanding at this rate, we'll put another brood box underneath.

P.S. I also spoke to Brother Pete today ,,, same same..

Pete , have you forgotten to tell everyone you have a Big Birthday coming up ?

 

[Pete D]

Pete , have you forgotten to tell everyone you have a Big Birthday coming up ?

 

[MuswellMetro]

I added supers above QE to 5 colonies yesterday out of 10 I looked at, 3 of these were 14x12 the other 2 std nationals. They needed space, the supers were all drawn comb and the amount of bees and sealed brood prompted my decision. The weather looks cooler next week but I dont think it will hold these bees back.
For me its a hive by hive decision, not calendar based or weather based.

As Chris, not sure what it was but plenty of nectar in the frames which i hope they will now move upstairs.

yes, exactly the same, bees on all frames, nectar coming in/being evaporated, wax comb in tupper ware tub i had fondant on, two full 14x12 frames of capped white new honey, 5 14x12 frames of dinner plate size brood , Bees biulding Drone comb on the Drone frame ,OSR about to go to full flower at present at 5% yellow, OSR pollen coming in like clockwork ,22c in the apairy and it is March 17th___

~~~ i must be mad to be inspecting because all the books and the forum say not to inspect yet, not until the equinox, not until easter, not until the 2nd april~~~even the NBU send out starvation notces, but really glad i took the bees advice and not the books, just watch your bees as see what they are telling you

play the bees tune not the books, each area is different, each year is different yes it may go cold again, so put back on feed but if they run out of room they WILL swarm and you will looose your queen and if it is cold when you loose a swarm then you will get a stale unfertilised queen instead

so what am i doing now, super over QE on large colonies, supers over open crown on moderate colonies bruising store of small brood conolies and feed water, now making up ply bait hives and cleaning my skep, i recon first reports of swarms about 2nd April and major fun collecting large swarms about 15th ~~~lots of old queen who did not swarm late April/May and lots of castes of poorley mated queen that mated early being replaced

 

[beeno]

Thanks to all the experienced beeks on this forum who say that it is ok to listen to the needs of the bees rather than old dogma. One supered here. Hope to check the others for room as soon as weather permitting. A week makes a lot of difference in development this time of the year! Soo much to do, soo much to learn.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The Spring always makes me so hopeful and I'm enjoying tales of supering. Masses of willow and blackthorn coming imminently but now high winds and rain forecast till end of the month

 

[pargyle]

The Spring always makes me so hopeful and I'm enjoying tales of supering. Masses of willow and blackthorn coming imminently but now high winds and rain forecast till end of the month

Yes ... Looks like you are going to catch the tail end of it in the West ... I'm hopeful that it will largely pass North of the Costa del South Hants ... Bright and sunny again this morning and overnight temp only down to 9 degrees ... a high on Sunday of 23 degrees ! Apart from a few showers towards the end of the week should continue for us ... not so good for you Erica. Sorry ..

 

[Pete D]

The Spring always makes me so hopeful (

Sat by my pond at 6 this morning drinking my first tea of the day, moorhens chasing each other about, frog spawn in the edge, the first sign of green shoots on water iris, a small submerged uncurling water lily leaf in the shallow channel, fish stirring the bottom at the windward end, a pair of wild mallard coming into land that saw me at the last minute and went around again.............. all signs that its coming very soon.
Finished my tea, fed the fish and took the long way back to the house, gorse in flower and bud (could be any month), Cherry and Pear about to burst into blossom, silver birch coming into leaf, blackthorn blossom in full flow, Ash, Spruce and Hornbeam buds starting to open,
pass the veg plot and raspberrys and blackcurrants leafing up, onion sets coming through and the last of my parsnips re-growing with vigour,
blackbirds chasing each other across the lawn, a pair of great tits checking out the nest box on my leafing willow, big bumble flying a foot high straight at the christmas roses.............

Spring is certainly arrived in my garden, I really dont like going to work anymore !

 

[Erichalfbee]

not so good for you Erica. Sorry ..

Moving my Yorkshireman husband from his adopted Cumbria was easier than I thought. When we are too infirm to toil our land I'll encourage a move of a similar distance.....He has an itch to return to Cumbria.

Ha Ha.... little does he know that I had a southerly move in mind.

 

[Tabby15]

I second the thanks for all the advice. First 2014 inspection today of hive one yielded wild comb in the super that had three frames of stores left for them to take, and then in brood box 7 frames of brood, 3 stores and two drawn but nearly empty.
Have moved empty frames to either side of brood nest, put on QE and filled super with drawn comb frames but was having doubts as only March. More confident having read this.
Second year in, going to be interesting.

 

[Dishmop]

Sat by my pond at 6 this morning drinking my first tea of the day,

get locked out?