Installing a package of bees

[badger65]

I have ordered a package of bees. I am going to install them into a 14x12 box with fully draw frames and one frame of honey. What would you do.

A. Feed syrup.
B. Feed Candipolline
C. Feed nothing

 

[Finman]

I have ordered a package of bees. I am going to install them into a 14x12 box with fully draw frames and one frame of honey. What would you do.

A. Feed syrup.
B. Feed Candipolline
C. Feed nothing

Sorry, I must find out what is candy pollinen.

One frame of honey is not enough. Give about 2 kg sugar as syrup.

When bees start to feed brood about one week later, their food consumption is big.

 

[badger65]

I have some candipolline. Would that be better than syrup?

 

[drex]

Small package, big hive. Never used 14x12, but on a standard national I would start the with about 5 frames, dummying down and add one or two at a time as they build up

 

[Finman]

.
I cannot find out how much protein has. It is mentioned that it has milk and egg protein.


But... You have summer now and bees get pollen from nature so much as they need. I would save the stuff/ money for better purposes.

But candypollen helps. No harm about it. It takes 5 days that the hives get larvae.

 

[badger65]

Ok thanks Finman. I do have a modified 14x12poly nuc that takes 8 frames. Would this bebetter than a full 14x12 brood body.

 

[Into the lions den]

Small package, big hive. Never used 14x12, but on a standard national I would start the with about 5 frames, dummying down and add one or two at a time as they build up

?? The ones I supply are 7 to 8 bars right from the off. If they go fine into 5 BS frames they are indeed small packages.

Returning to the OP.

You CAN install them on drawn comb if you wish but good packages are prepared with prime comb drawing age bees taken from the honey supers, and are more often installed on foundation.

Close the entrance down to a single beeway, or very small at least. Take the bars out of the box and shake the bees into the bottom of the broodbox, replace the frames and allow them to settle under their own weight. Hang the queen cage between two frames with the candy tab exposed. If they came with a pheromone tab take it away and seal it up otherwise the bees will go to it. Once that is done put a feeder on top with 2 gallons of syrup (does not make much difference if thick or thin) and close the hive up. Do NOT investigate progress for at least a week. (every day less than that you go in increases failure rates) there is very little purpose in giving a package candy of any sort except as feeding while it is still in the package if the syrup has run out.

After about 24/48 hrs you can open the entrance fully up.

For those with a more confident spirit...you can introduce the queen by popping the queen cage into a mug of water and getting all the bees thoroughly wet. Then just open the cage and drop her in with the disorientated bees. The wetting is what stops her taking to the wing......many a good queen has bee lost that way.

The thought it needs pollen in the feed is incorrect as the bees fly free and bring plentiful pollen in, and are a day or two ahead of the queen starting to lay.

 

[badger65]

Thanks for all the help. I think I will mix it up with drawn frames and foundation. Always useful to have a few extra drawn frames.

 

[Finman]

.
I cannot see any reason to put bees to draw combs, if he already has ready combs.

I do not know, how much the package has bees. But it is a long way to full size hive.

Everyone can make art from that small cololy. It is like a smal swarm and nothing else.

 

[badger65]

It contains around 1.5kg. Would you install in an 8 frame poly nuc?.

 

[SDM]

It contains around 1.5kg. Would you install in an 8 frame poly nuc?.

I would. An 8 frame 14x12 nuc would be a great fit

 

[drex]

My comment was based on theory and very limited experience. I bow to ITLD's great experience

 

[oliver90owner]

Do read the list of normal inspection observations. One important one is ‘Is there sufficient stores to last until the next inspection’. If not, feed.

Bees need warmth to draw comb. A good sized package should be able to provide this, provided they are not housed in a barn with freezing temperatures and unwanted draughts.

They won’t draw comb unless required for brooding or storing surplus food.

All simple basics, when one thinks about it in a simple and rational way.

 

[Finman]

Do read the list of normal inspection observations. One important one is ‘Is there sufficient stores to last until the next inspection’. If not, feed.

Bees need warmth to draw comb. A good sized package should be able to provide this, provided they are not housed in a barn with freezing temperatures and unwanted draughts.

They won’t draw comb unless required for brooding or storing surplus food.

All simple basics, when one thinks about it in a simple and rational way.

He has ready combs, and no need to offer to draw foundations in your "freezy temp and unwanted draught".

When the colony starts to grow after a month, perhaps you summer is better than now.

If you feed too much, it limits the brood area. Two full frame food should be enough in eight frame nuc. 10 frame box is almost the same.

When new bees start to energe after 4 weeks, the bee number is dropped almost to the half. Brood generates too heat and keeps the hive warm.

Do not keep an open mesh floor in the hive.
5 x 1 cm entrance is enough to such colony.
.

 

[Into the lions den]

.
I cannot see any reason to put bees to draw combs, if he already has ready combs.
.

Your opinion. It works very well. No difference after a month from those placed on drawn combs. New foundation on clean frames .......no transfer of pathogens. Used combs increase that risk, even if just a tiny bit.

 

[Finman]

Your opinion. It works very well. No difference after a month from those placed on drawn combs. New foundation on clean frames .......no transfer of pathogens. Used combs increase that risk, even if just a tiny bit.

It is not an opinion. It is a simple fact.

It worked indeed... I started my serious beekeeping 1966 with swarms. I put together 18 hives, and each had 4 kg bees. Every hive draw 2 boxes fundation with the 10 kg sugar.
... Such miracle. Bees drew combs...

Oh dear. And last year frames have patogens!

Used combs add that risk... Where you put your old combs 5 boxes per hive?.



.dont fool me. I have kept bees as long as you.

.

 

[Into the lions den]

It contains around 1.5kg. Would you install in an 8 frame poly nuc?.

We just stick them into full hives right from the off. You will be surprised how fast they go across the box. You MUST feed them well however.

All packages take something of a dip before the young bees start to hatch and then they really motor. How deep the dip is is a measure of the quality of supplier, too many old bees then the die off rate is higher and the dip much deeper, and with some suppliers I have seen, who shake from the nest rather than the supers, the dip can be very severe.

Good to ask questions before you buy.

1,5Kg is the standard package. Should cover 6 to 8 BS deep frames and will draw comb for fun if fully fed, they are the correct age for doing this and its an incidental product of fed bees of the correct age...it is NOT a severe task in this case.

Mind you...what does 1.5Kg mean? If they fill to 1.5Kg at source then they will be in the vicinity of 1.25 to 1.35 Kg after a few days in a cage. Mainly due to respiration of the stores in their honey stomachs. Bees shaken in a flow are also heavier than bees shaken outwith a flow...so less bees in the weight.

Good producers allow for this and shake 1.6...up to 1.7 Kg at source, depending on flow conditions, so the customer gets as close to 1.5 Kg on delivery as possible. Can amount to a bar or two of bees of a difference at installation time, and with the right age bees as opposed to old bees you can have a situation where the good full weight package is close to double the size of the bare weight packages at the date just before first brood emergence.

Its not quite as Finman says....'just a small swarm'. At face value he is correct, but its far more nuanced than that.

 

[Into the lions den]

I have kept bees as long as you.

Not arguing with you on that Finny.....but I work with 1000+ packages a year, almost entirely for other beekeepers...and have seen all (? maybe) the problems that can arise.

You may have noticed I almost always support your inputs.............you DO know what you are talking about, but your knowledge is not always transferrable to a UK setting, and neither is ours to you.


and FWIW....HAVE seen clean packages housed on old combs end up with FB problems. However that recipient, contrary to all advice from ourselves and their inspectors, housed them in their previous seasons dead outs. They insisted absolutely they had no disease in their combs. Unless its gross with scale present how would you KNOW for sure?

 

[Finman]

One box swarm cannot make yield,but two box swarm can. That is the difference between size of swarms.

But if I have now a box of bees, I have a full size hive at the end of June. And they get normal yield.

My biggest colonies have now that 1.5 kg bees. It is April still.