increase by split Wally Shaw

[beecology]

With reference to the above, I am thinking of doing a 1-2 split on a strong colony.

What I find interesting is wally shaw's comments on emergency queens being wrongly labelled as inferior - with a strong colony (enough nurse bees to feed queens), he argues that making increase in this way is reliable and effective.

He also states that grafted queens (starter and finisher methods) are not actually swarm queens and more akin to emergency queens, so it is odd that many feel swarm queens are superior?

On that basis, can anyone add opinions/experience that I might find useful prior to splitting?

Thanks in advance

 

[Anduril]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28607 Have a read of this link.

 

[beecology]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28607 Have a read of this link.

Top draw, thanks for that Anduril

 

[Anduril]

I have an emergency queen that is four years old and still going strong. I expect she will be superseded this year.

 

[Finman]

It is well known what are emergency queens and what are grafted queens. No need to invent them again. Grafted queens are researches too well.

Shaw cannot change facts, even what ever he says.

When a beekeeper limits laying to one box, he does not need 2 box layer.


.

 

[Finman]

.
Emercency queen larvae are reared from 3 days old larvae.
Normal queen larva is feeded 5 days.

Douple grafted queens are not heavier than once grafted.

Pollen feeding of rearing hive does not make queens bigger.

Grafted queen are often weak because feeder bees adandon them and start to rear own emergency cells in brood combs ( beginners)

 

[Anduril]

Finman my emergency queen was raised from 1 day old larvae. I selected a hive with only capped brood, removing open cells of larvae and leaving a frame of only eggs. 6 emergency cells were created, I used only 1 cell at the time because that was all I needed.

 

[Finman]

Finman my emergency queen was raised from 1 day old larvae. I selected a hive with only capped brood, removing open cells of larvae and leaving a frame of only eggs. 6 emergency cells were created, I used only 1 cell at the time because that was all I needed.

If you selected the larva, it is not a emergency queen.
What you say is one of queen rearing methods. It goes better when you cut slices into larva/egg comb.

Essential is that emergency cells have too few royal jelly. When the queen emerges, you will see that there is no extra jelly on the bottom of cell like in normall queen cells.

 

[Anduril]

Your describing the Hopkins method of queen rearing or notching. My method ensured the bees only produced queen cells from one area. If the wax is new there is no need to do notching as the bees will draw the cell down removing the worker cell walls below, this stops the hook nose shape in older wax. Also I did see extra royal jelly. As long as you have plenty of nurse bees the queens will be well fed. Please have a look at Wally Shaws info.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As long as you have plenty of nurse bees the queens will be well fed. Please have a look at Wally Shaws info.

but he won't, the blinkers won't let his see over that far

 

[Finman]

. As long as you have plenty of nurse bees the queens will be well fed. Please have a look at Wally Shaws info.

Larva needs its 5 days feeding. Wally Shaw can write what ever.

 

[Anduril]

Larva needs its 5 days feeding. Wally Shaw can write what ever.

This is regarding new scientific research. Your never too old to learn something.

 

[Finman]

This is regarding new scientific research. Your never too old to learn something.

I read your comments about emergency queens and grafted queens. ..emergency is even better. Good!

The most importand thing in queen rearing is, from which hive you take larvae what you are going to rear. Selection made by beekeeper.

 

[Anduril]

I read your comments about emergency queens and grafted queens.

Please explain!!! Quote my comments on grafted cells on this thread, there aren't any. My comments are specific to emergency queen cells only using up to date scientific research.

 

[Finman]

Please explain!!! Quote my comments on grafted cells on this thread, there aren't any. My comments are specific to emergency queen cells only using up to date scientific research.

Scientific research.... Is it such where it is said that queen ovaries are as big but semen bursa is smaller in emergency queen.

I have seen so much emergency queens in my 53 beekeeping years, that I do not need scientific evidencies, what they are.

When I rear nowadays queens, I graft larvae from good hive to swarm queen cells. Results are fine. I got idea from Canadian Ron Miksha's book "Bad beekeeping".

Emergency queen cells are difficult to cut from comb, when I need 10-15 queens at same time. It would be easy to change youger larva to emergency cells from good hive.

Emergency queens are easily violated when I have put cells into queen cage.

To rear laying queen is a big process. It does not help, if you rear emergency queens. It takes at least 25 days that queen lays after grafting. To make mating nucs is one job too.

 

[Anduril]

Your doing this as a commercial beekeeper. Most people on here are doing it as a hobby. Bees have been producing emergency cells for 100 million years.

 

[Finman]

Your doing this as a commercial beekeeper. Most people on here are doing it as a hobby. Bees have been producing emergency cells for 100 million years.

Here too over 90% are hobby beekeepers. Me included.

Grafting has been made about 100 years. As long as movable frames have been

 

[Anduril]

I'm not disputing the idea of grafting. It doesn't suit everyone and to have a variety of techniques allows everyone to fit into their comfort zone.

 

[Roola]

Sorry to hijack slightly but was also reading this booklet, Quick question. If you are making up a nuc and want to use brood and bees from multiple colonies, Is it a minimum of three colonies to avoid fighting? I cannot remember! cheers

 

[Finman]

I'm not disputing the idea of grafting. It doesn't suit everyone and to have a variety of techniques allows everyone to fit into their comfort zone.

Every one do as they do. Adult people in question. But it is vain to claim that you get from emergency cells as good as from grafted.

Now we talk only about queen's ability to lay. But rearing queens is something else than that.

You may rear one queen from your hive, but do not advertise that it is as good as selected and grafted. To select a mother hive from 10 hives than from 200 hives.

And the rearing queens is so expencive operation, that queens are not free at all
If you rear one queen, quality will be poor and price is huge when you calculate as a loss of honey yield.

Best way is buy a laying quality queen, and make a nuc. That is scientific.