Import of NZ bees into UK

[peteinwilts]

I can see nuc imports being bad news.
just to confuse i do love the queens that NZ and even norton bee imports. my newbes have had some fantasic colonies from those queens, and fair play thats a lot of hard work and effort that I am not making and they are!!

poly hive is right , the only way to kill off imports is if they are not needed

was it not the commercial boys with their foreign imports that brought us varroa!?!

Keep British bees British (sounds a bbit racist!). the difference with the 'odd' hive of foreigners is the genes are likely to dilute quite quickly. Several hundred hives in one place would be a tidal wave.

 

[Waxing]

Could you not circulate this by e-mail to BBKA with a request that that they might like to forward the information to County BKAs for onward transmission to Divisional level?
That would certainly ensure that your (our) concerns were widely known.
Who knows who, perhaps influential, persons might pick it up?
Best, Waxing

 

[Scutellator]

u can argue all day what diseases they have and what they dont, at the end of the day we as beekeepers should be trying to help are local bee and push out all imports as fast as possible, for the ones who are trying to breed apis mellifera mellifera my hat goes off to them, im not interested in more honey or whats more friendly i want to do whats rite!

I think that some people have interests to led people like you to believe that imports are an excuse for not doing their job.

I'll stop here.


Best regards
Donnie

 

[Somerford]

As far as I recall, this thread started about the importation of whole colonies (albeit as packages).

I wonder how many beekeepers would give up the craft if, say, the SHB was imported and the problem became endemic? That may not be an issue here but I could see the number of colonies halving over a short time scale. Some bee farmers would crumple under the extra burden of another exotic pest.

Biosecurity, to avoid the following risks, would then, in hindsight, have been a beeter policy than 'having a contingency plan'

Further, I would think a ring of bait hives might help the contingency plan, rather than the problem spreading further, more quickly. But by then I suspect all would be lost if any ensuing problem were found in the swarms from the offending colonies.

So I say, don't take your eye off the ball. Packages are far more likely to be a problem than quens with a few attendants.

RAB

RAB, you hit the nail on the head - exactly the points I was trying to get across. Why shut the door after the horse has bolted when you can do so in advance AND shoot the horse first !

I am seriously concerned that the bees will bring in nasties with them too, and no Regional Bee Inspector will be able to , hand on heart, check the packages 100%......and therein lies the open door.

What bugs me is that on one hand the media and public are aware of the vanishing bees (isn't that what every non-beek talk to us about?) but they have no idea of the real issues at stake.

PETE - I'd hope your bee's sake you keep any swarms from there well away from your colonies until they are 100% clear...and re-queened !

I'm not an eco terrorist - leaving honey open would be daft, but I'd be happier if the packages were destroyed !

S

 

[DanBee]

Not a complete list but as far as I can tell NZ pests and diseases are unless someone knows better?
Yes some are with us now but.....

AFB. - got
Varroa. - got
Nosema ceranae. - got
Small hive beetle. - not got
chronic bee paaiysis - got
kashmir bee virus - got
black queen Gel1 Virus - got
sacbrood virusIII - got
Tracheal mite - got
Amoeba - got
Wax moth.- got (twice!)
Chalkbrood - got
Bee louse - got
Asian mite - ???

Dare I say your list is a little alarmist - all but SHB are already here and widespread!

Care to elaborate on what Asian Bee Mite might be?

 

[DanBee]

we as beekeepers should be trying to help are local bee and push out all imports as fast as possible, for the ones who are trying to breed apis mellifera mellifera my hat goes off to them, im not interested in more honey or whats more friendly i want to do whats rite!

Good sentiment, but Apis melifera melifera might not be the right horse to back. Many of what are considered native Amm were brought in from France and Holland after the IoW disease in the early 20th century.

What we should be concentrating on is locally adapted bees, regardless of colour. Ability to thrive in current climate & forage conditions is far better than patriotically or nostalgically supporting a subsistence breed that - let's face it - doesn't thrive like some of the mongrels do. That the importation of stocks (and mixing of genetic material) has happened for well over a century is fact. It would require implausible levels of effort and control to eradicate even if you could suddenly stop all further imports.

There are many 'local mongrels' that out perform (survive, reproduce, thrive) so-called 'native' stocks. After all, isn't that why mongrels dominate and Amm are found in small pockets here and there? If the Amm characteristics were superior, they would be expressed in the most successful (and therefore most prevalent) of mongrel stocks.

 

[DanBee]

I seem to remember NZ have got their AFB incidence down to about half a percent i.e. one colony in every 200. (Sorry I can't find the reference without a bit of digging). I've heard of at least one large scale NZ beekeeper who deals with AFB himself (probably illegally) so perhaps the true AFB rate is higher.

That's an unfair assessment of the situation. This was the subject of an excellent lecture by Dr. Mark Goodwin at last year's National Honey Show. In the early 1990's, the NZ government first de-regulated AFB, and then withdrew funding for the Bee Health Service - the equivalent of our NBU. AFB detection, treatment, and control therefore became the responsibility of beekeepers. This led to an unprecedented level of openness amongst beekeepers, who effectively pay to fund their own Bee Health Service and inspectors/advisers/researchers, and the incidence of AFB decreased precisely because it could be discussed without fear of bureaucratic consequences.

The other concern is SHB. It's not been discovered in NZ, but that doesn't mean it's not there. How trustworthy is the biosecurity? I'm also still very concerned about Norton's 352 "phantom nucs" which potentially show how red tape and paperwork can be used to "launder" bees from an unknown source. At best it makes our own border controls look incompetent.

If people are willing to import stocks illegally now, do you think that banning all imports will stop them? I rather suspect they would continue. In the extreme all it takes is one unscrupulous individual to import one infected/infested colony... can you ever legislate to eradicate that possibility? No.

It is also considered highly likely that SHB might arrive with imports of exotic plants, fruit, or vegetables. If you look back at the varroa incidence data from 1992-1993, once people had had the wake-up call of the first discovery and started to look properly, it was quickly identified in the vicinity of 2-3 major ports across the country. Best estimate was that it had been present for three years before it was noticed. If we beekeepers can't spot the little blighters for three years, what chance a Customs & Excise officer with hundreds of containers a day to check for all manner of prohibited or controlled imports?!

 

[Chris B]

That's an unfair assessment of the situation.
They have a higher recorded AFB rate than us. Not all AFB is reported (same as here probably). But it should be because it's a notifiable disease, otherwise no imports whatsoever from NZ would be allowed. Not sure what you're getting at Dan.

Re. your SHB comments I largely agree with you. But I'm not talking about banning imports, but exposing them and the risks involved. And if somebody has pulled a fast one to get 352 colonies into the UK illegally then are you suggesting we just turn a blind eye?

 

[BobH1]

And if somebody has pulled a fast one to get 352 colonies into the UK illegally

Are these bees / queens being imported illegally? I thought the problem was that they were being imported legally.

 

[DanBee]

Not sure what you're getting at Dan.

I wasn't happy with the assertion that one or more NZ beekeepers treated AFB "illegally" themselves since it's been de-regulated for 15+ years. There is no requirement to notify, no government agency to receive notification, and the only persons expected to administer treatment are the beekeepers themselves.

Re. your SHB comments I largely agree with you. But I'm not talking about banning imports, but exposing them and the risks involved. And if somebody has pulled a fast one to get 352 colonies into the UK illegally then are you suggesting we just turn a blind eye?

No, I think we agree here that abuses of the system should be exposed and stopped. But in response to the broader anti-import sentiment others have displayed, it will prove extremely difficult to stop all imports of bees - legally or accidentally - and nigh-on impossible to stop all illegal imports. I'm neither condoning nor excusing

 

[fox403]

Dan it shouldn't be are choice to import bees in the past generation they had little knowledge of the knock on affects importing did...we have a chance to try and put things rite

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[DanBee]

Dan it shouldn't be are choice to import bees

Really? Emotionally appealing but how do you deal with international trade agreements, for instance? How are you going to fully satisfy the demand for queens - quality, quantity, timing - from domestic sources?

Apply the same principle to people and it would be thought of as ludicrous, even dangerous, to suggest that one race was superior to all others and had sole rights to be here...

 

[fox403]

dan its bees not people!,,,whole forums thats dedicated to get the native back i just hope it works..

 

[Poly Hive]

I am interested to see your location as Devon DanBee as over the years there is/has been a noticible south north divide over bees.

Them to the south, whether more under the thrall of Brother Adam or no, seem far more interesteed in yellow bees, and the rest of the country, certainly north of Watford have been more interested in the native AMM.

If I were to make the folowing sales pitch I wonder how many would be interested?

Medium colony size, calm on comb, raised cappings ideal for comb honey, low swarming, inclined to supercedure, long lived, good honey getters, work well in poor weather.

Coupled with: Buying over wintered nucs as a normal procedure, national breed program using the best of the best in the locality to improve the local genetics, a willingness amongst the fraternity to work for the common good.

We might actually produce for ourselves something excellent.

If the Germans can why not us and we have the bonus of more islands...

And please do not try and tell me AMM does not exist. Brother Adam was utterly wrong on that wee matter.

PH

 

[chycarne]

I would buy one PH quite happily and overall I agree... We will be working to the AMM but with my previous provisos, we want a broad base to work from...
Also as a point ... life always want to select the best for the environment I am not going to get into points of race, suffice to say if I was really huffy - I am a Celt and all those darn Normans and Saxons (are Vikings different from Normans???) ... But back to reality, the AMM bee is the better suited to the climate, it does not however crop the best, for a great cropper you pay the price of reduced overwintering ability and also greater swarmyness and therefore harder work. Personaly I like my bees like the ones we have you can walk up at any time have a quick look and dont need to suite up, for longer looks and action yes a suite is needed but gloves are only a comfort- not required... they are clean and busy in hive.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Very organised the Germans,they decided AMC was better than than there black bee's..AMM....or the mongrels.

 

[fox403]

again we talk what best bee suits us,, belive me i dont fancy getting chased off are amm's if they really are as bad as some say but its only us the beekeeper that can save them nobody else

 

[hedgerow pete]

there are good and bad amm queens, but by far the worst tempered evil bee is a second cross from a buckfast, i would rather have amm any day compared to those

 

[Friar Tuck]

Is there a difference between importing bees from say Greece and NZ ?

 

[Poly Hive]

In a word yes.

BTW there is no guarantee that an imported queen will be all happiness for you.

I could cite an example....

PH