Hygenic behaviour - pin test

[Gilberdyke John]

I spent a day last week in discussion and practical training and part of the session covered pin testing brood for hygienic behaviour. The use of a mask and pin was demonstrated plus a few "here's a frame prepared earlier" examples shown. Results varied from 30% cleaned out cells to the best example where 98% were cleaned out in the intervening 24 hours. (no the colony wasn't for sale ).
Maybe it's down to a gap in my studies but I hadn't come across this test before and found it fascinating, if a little damaging to the brood frame.
How common is the use of the test since I can't find reference to it in the forum search, and how many queen breeders select for hygenic behaviour?

 

[enrico]

Never heard of it but that doesn't surprise me! I am not one for being over cautious! Sometimes I wonder if we worry too much. I will watch this thread with interest though.
E

 

[B+.]

pin testing brood for hygienic behaviour.

The pin test (http://www.coloss.org/beebook/I/queen-rearing/3/3/4/3) is a simple alternative to the frozen brood assay(http://www.coloss.org/beebook/I/queen-rearing/3/3/4/2). I do this test three times per year on my test colonies. It is part of the protocol we follow in BeeBreed

 

[boca]

It is very simple. I usually rear 3 times more queens than I am going to winter.
In August, when all the workers are daughters of the queen in the nuc, I make the test.
The queens of the worst performing families are discarded and the bees are united to the top 30%.

I believe the method is not widely used because small scale beekeepers don't care and commercial queen rearers cannot obtain the cost of maintaining 3 nuc for 2 monts to obtain a single hygienic queen.

 

[sussexbaker]

That looks a far more practical test for small scale beekeepers. I had vague ideas about trying to get our association to invest in the kit needed to perform the frozen brood assay, but couldn't really see it working. This on the other hand I'm happy to carry out myself. Thanks for the link!

 

[pargyle]

It's interesting isn't it .. I've known about the pin test for some time but considered it a bit destructive for my hives last year when they were still developing into full colonies - I'm treatment free and have manageable varroa loads in my hives and out of curiosity (as much as anything) I might try this in one or two of the colonies just to see if my bees can be considered as 'hygienic bees'. It's one more ingredient in the mix of the fight for healthy colonies that can survive and thrive alongside varroa.

The Holy grail gets nearer perhaps ?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It is very simple. I usually rear 3 times more queens than I am going to winter.
In August, when all the workers are daughters of the queen in the nuc, I make the test.
The queens of the worst performing families are discarded and the bees are united to the top 30%.

I believe the method is not widely used because small scale beekeepers don't care and commercial queen rearers cannot obtain the cost of maintaining 3 nuc for 2 monts to obtain a single hygienic queen.

I can sympathise with the small scale hobby keepers, many of which struggle to keep one or two colonies and may simply be glad their bees live through winter. However the opportunity to improve the strain of bees is important, such that beekeepers who do breed can use this as a tool to help towards this. If it's not widely known about it's not available to many to take advantage of
Hence the latter part of my original post, it might be a strong marketing edge for a queen supplier to be able to say "bred from hygenic stock"

 

[boca]

In my opinion has nothing to do with improving the strain, since the heritability (h²) of the hygienic behavior is low. It is simply selecting the queens that go in winter and production next year.
I see it similar to selecting employees for a company. You want attractive young ladies that speak languages. That is what the company needs now. It does not mean that the daughters of the selected employees will be attractive and speak languages.

It also has nothing to do with varroa. Hygienic colonies are resistant to American foulbrood. That's all.

 

[Finman]

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It also has nothing to do with varroa. Hygienic colonies are resistant to American foulbrood. That's all.

Very good resistancy results have got in rearches. But where are those resistant bee stocks?

 

[B+.]

That looks a far more practical test for small scale beekeepers. I had vague ideas about trying to get our association to invest in the kit needed to perform the frozen brood assay, but couldn't really see it working. This on the other hand I'm happy to carry out myself. Thanks for the link!

You're welcome.
All you need is a number 2 insect pin and a card which has a 10*10 cell trapezoid cut into it.
Incidentally, this same card can be used to establish the level of inbreeding (average of 3 measurements)

 

[B+.]

In August, when all the workers are daughters of the queen in the nuc, I make the test.
The queens of the worst performing families are discarded and the bees are united to the top 30%.

If you only do a single reading, how can you be sure that the behaviour wasn't random?
I have to do 3 tests throughout the season so different bees are tested (i.e. the bees that uncapped the first sample will be dead by the time I do the second test)

 

[B+.]

I might try this in one or two of the colonies just to see if my bees can be considered as 'hygienic bees'.

I think it would be a good start, but, I wouldn't go making any claims without testing several generations

 

[pargyle]

I think it would be a good start, but, I wouldn't go making any claims without testing several generations

I rarely make any claims about my bees, I report observations and in beekeeping that's about the best that anyone can do .. there are so many variables in beekeeping that there is little that can be guaranteed for any consistent period of time ... at least for the small scale hobby beekeeper.

I am in awe of those of you seeking to breed favourable traits in bees but unless these can be learned behaviours then they can only reflect a short term improvement - any traits that are passed on genetically are doomed to change once a queen is permitted to mate openly, except where the drone population can be similarly controlled.

Perhaps AI will be the ultimate answer to beekeeping in the same way that many farm animals are now bred ?

 

[B+.]

Perhaps AI will be the ultimate answer to beekeeping in the same way that many farm animals are now bred ?

II is a useful technique but I can't produce queens in the same numbers that can be produced with open mating. They use islands off the coast of mainland Europe to control the mating of lots of queens. However, its a beaurocratic nightmare trying to arrange the two-way movement of mating nucs through TRACES

 

[Finman]

.
When Britain has its bee inspector system, inspectors should order, what kind of bees you are allowed to keep in your hives. Races should be like political parties, which should be voted every second year. Then queens,will be changed according consensus.

 

[pargyle]

.
When Britain has its bee inspector system, inspectors should order, what kind of bees you are allowed to keep in your hives. Races should be like political parties, which should be voted every second year. Then queens,will be changed according consensus.

God forbid .... we fought a pretty major war a few years ago so that we could live in a country with freedom and helped a few other countries along the way to regain their freedom. If that situation ever arises I think there will be a few beekeepers manning the barricades - mind you - if Brussels gets involved then it's only a matter of time ... straight bananas ?

 

[B+.]

God forbid .... we fought a pretty major war a few years ago so that we could live in a country with freedom and helped a few other countries along the way to regain their freedom.

Lets not forget that those countries fought too.

 

[Finman]

.
It is well done if Brussell is intrested about UK 2 hive owners and about your 15 kg honey/hive.

 

[Finman]

God forbid .... we fought a pretty major war a few years ago so that we could live in a country with freedom and helped a few other countries along the way to regain their freedom. ?

Finland got help from Hitler in last war and we kept our freedom against Russia. I do not remember British help.

 

[boca]

But where are those resistant bee stocks?

AFB resistant colonies are present in every apiary. It is enough to get rid of the susceptible ones.