How do Beekeepers manage with Nationals

[steve1958]

Looking back over my records this past year there have been occasions when my Langstroth Poly Hive had 9 Brood frames of Brood.
On Average it is 6.

So how do Nationals cope with this as their frames are smaller.

I am considering changing to Nationals as the weight of them would be so much easier.
However if it means I will need to use a double brood box set-up it would mean just as much lifting?

Any thoughts

 

[enrico]

Not really because you can lift it in two pieces!! I have only ever had nationals and may have singles, brood and a half, and double all going at once depending on if they need it or not.
E

 

[sipa]

More to do with the number of cells available & if your bees produce a nest to fit.

National - 11 Frames = 50,000 cells

Langstroth - 10 frames 61,400 cells

Jumbo Langstroth - 11 Frames 85,000 cells

 

[oliver90owner]

I use Nationals - 14 x 12, or extra deeps.

Not so far off the Langstroth sizes.

No need to worry about coping, any more than any other appropriately sized brood box.

 

[For want of a better word]

Brood... Brood + 1/2... double brood..... no constraints... the brood box can also be fitter with a wide dummy to accommodate 3 frames.

Why use anything else and get a bad back???

Yeghes da

 

[tidymeup]

Give them a second langstroth brood and watch them do between 14 and 18 frames of brood. Then wonder how people people cope with nationals.

 

[oliver90owner]

Look back in history a tad. Langstroths hives were not a design for actual size - the important design feature was the bee space. It is oft said that the box size came about because they were champagne boxes simply recycled.

TBH, I reckon the nest shape in a 14 x12 (yes, a National hive) is far more sensible than any 'more shallow, but wider' box. Eat your heart out; you are simply wrong with your assumptions that one frame format is better than another. Horses for courses, compromise, etc. Live and let live. Get real and accept that while there is one format that is dominant in the world, it was not by design of the box size. The suggestion that Nationals are carp is unfounded. It is the beekeepers that cannot manage their colonies who are that.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Simple answer is quite easily.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[RogueDrone]

Depending how you manage the bees no need form more than single BB.

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[oliver90owner]

Just for fun I looked at my Big T catalogue. 9 frames represents 6140/21 = 2600 eggs's per day for Langstroth. Nowhere near one certain poster's claimed 4000+ eggs per day but, nevertheless, quite a maximum (not a continued regular lay rate?) of 2600 eggs per day. That is assuming no drone brood, of course. Makes me smile, that cherry picked data is provided.

Compromise is the name of the game with bee boxes, not quoting maximums. 6 frames represents 1750 eggs per day, so still on the high side (over what period, I ask) for normal queens in the UK over an average year?

Soo, cherry- picked figures? Or maybe exaggeration? ? Lets just talk real, everyday, down to earth truthful data and accept there is a compromise with all choices for keeping bees. For me, the 14 x 12 works well; for some the WBC is suitable, others the beehaus/Dartington with a different layout, but still National frames. No one format is perfect and the sooner that simple fact is recognised, the better it will be by for all in discussions re format

 

[Goodwood]

My best producing colony this year was a single national.
Having gone to all double BB in the past I am now going back bit by bit for ease of handling....Being a shorty having to stand on wobbly milk crate to add to large super stacks has been a pain in the bum as well as neck and shoulders.

 

[Tremyfro]

2 of my colonies had 12 and 14 frames of brood respectively. They were edge to edge. Both were on poly double national brood boxes. Now one has shrunk back to 6 frames ready for winter. For next year these colonies will be in long hives. Then the brood nests can be as big as needed...without splitting the brood nest for every inspection or having to use extra brood boxes. As you say...lifting the brood boxes and supers on and off for each inspection has been a pain...even though we have had poor nectar flows this summer. Now they are on the Himalayan balsam...the boxes are filling up a bit. It is impossible to lift them when they are high. Getting the right height hive stands is important too...too low and you have a lot of bending...too high and you can't reach to put the supers on and off!