Hornet in Balham, S London

[Roola]

Strange, they spend a lot of time killing my bees, dissecting them, and taking the thorax back to feed their larvae, wonder why the hornets don't do the same with your bees.

I'm sure a few of them do... but not in the numbers that cause colonies any problems, wasps on the other hand have been surrounding hives in their 100s and almost decimated one weaker colony until I put them in a nuc with tiny entrance. Maybe down your way there are larger populations of hornets? Bearing in mind at the age off 33, I had never seen a hornet until 2 years ago.

 

[Karol]

Strange, they spend a lot of time killing my bees, dissecting them, and taking the thorax back to feed their larvae, wonder why the hornets don't do the same with your bees.

Not strange if they are queen median wasps (which are so easily mistaken for hornets as Fritillary quite rightly points out) or queen hornets. It's only ever workers that attack hives. Far too risky for queens to put themselves at risk (and therefore their future colony) in such a dangerous endeavour. Queen wasps/hornets will visit hives later in the year when they are looking for a safe place to hibernate and they don't bother the bees when they do this so the bees seem to ignore them.

Hornets and queen wasps are generally very docile (towards humans) when away from a nest. That said, I would strongly caution against anyone contemplating copying Adrian's exploits (even though the pictures are magnificent). The risk of being stung is too high and the consequences too grave viz Kounis. It's one thing being a beekeeper getting stung reasonably regularly by bees and developing tolerance to the sting. It's a completely different thing getting stung intermittently by wasps whose venom is designed to cause heart attacks and hornet venom is three times more allergenic than wasp venom.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Maybe down your way there are larger populations of hornets?

Yes there are always lots of them around this area, especially around the apiaries and the areas where there is any likely easy food source at certain times of the year...even the back of the trucks, feeding on fondant, usually finished off by grabbing a bee to dissect in a nearby tree.

Not strange if they are queen median wasps (which are so easily mistaken for hornets as Fritillary quite rightly points out) or queen hornets.

They are definitely hornets ( have put several pictures on here of them dissecting bees)... only ever seen median wasps around here once, a few years ago now.

Even had a hornet nest in an empty beehive last year.

 

[kazmcc]

Hi Kaz, thank you but I don't think kudos is deserved really
I had recently seen someone on the telly demonstrating that hornets were really quite gentle creatures and not deserving of the fear they generate (that's the thought that prompted me to post).
If I'd known that it wasn't a hornet, I might have been more concerned
Still, I doubt there are many things that are hungry and without cause to be defensive that should worry us.
I know wasps can be sometimes be aggressive, but then their attitiude is clear even before you've been introduced (i.e. they come straight at you) .

I've been chatting a lot with people who work with hornets, and they tell me they are quite docile and are more likely to bite than sting when threatened. Still, the phobic in me won't let any insects land on me, even bees lol, I think I am the forum's only phobic bee keeper

 

[AdrianSmith]

Strange, they spend a lot of time killing my bees, dissecting them, and taking the thorax back to feed their larvae, wonder why the hornets don't do the same with your bees.

I thought this thread was over until I came back from work this evening to be told there had been three hornets in the room where I had seen the other one. I thought it must have come in through a window, but it seems it came down the chimney. There was another one when I looked.
Could we have had a hornets nest in our chimney without knowing it? If so, it does seem strange I've never seen one in the garden with the beehives.
This one really is a hornet

 

[Karol]

Majestic insects. Glad to see you've refrained from handling them with bare hands.

 

[AdrianSmith]

Majestic insects. Glad to see you've refrained from handling them with bare hands.

I can see a whole new line in Karol-baiting coming up

This one clearly wasn't up for that. It had a quick drink of the syrup on that tissue but was agitating to take off.
The camera flash disturbed it and it hovered just in front of the camera for while before coming to study me. It went straight out of the window when I opened it. I definately felt like I was being checked out.

We've covered the bottom of the chimney but there may be more

 

[mazzamazda]

Yep, we have had a nest in our chimney, I think past tense as the fire was on all day today!

I have had massive problems with them this year and don't find them beautiful or fascinating when they have been taking off with nearly as many of my bees as Asian hornets.

 

[Karol]

I can see a whole new line in Karol-baiting coming up

Let me help you!

Just seen and personally treated too many victims.

To put it into context, getting stung by a vespine beastie is like playing Russian roulette with one round in 125 chambers.

These are just some of the potential complications of a wasp/hornet sting that immediately spring to mind:

Myocardial Infarction
Stroke
Pulmonary embolism
Allergic angina
Kidney failure
Guillain Barre syndrome
Optic neuritis
Stevens Johnson Syndrome
Serum sickness
Thrombocytopenia
Liver necrosis
Cellulitis
Necrotising fasciitis

Oh and of course, before I forget, anaphylaxis which seems to have stolen the limelight but is rarely fatal (1 per 1000 ish) because it's so easily diagnosed.

The toll on the NHS from wasp stings is massive and the amount of human suffering is considerable.

Just wouldn't like to see you become another unnecessary victim Adrian! Much rather have you posting photos than someone posting an obituary!

 

[Mrs Shoot]

A friend does forestry work, got stung 5 times by hornets while working in some woods. Paralized both legs and one arm. He managed to crawl with one arm, out of the woods so he could get a signal on his phone to call for help. He was airlifted to hospital, was very lucky. Now has to carry an epi pen as any sting could be fatal.

 

[GlenJ]

Let me help you!

Just seen and personally treated too many victims.

To put it into context, getting stung by a vespine beastie is like playing Russian roulette with one round in 125 chambers.

These are just some of the potential complications of a wasp/hornet sting that immediately spring to mind:

Myocardial Infarction
Stroke
Pulmonary embolism
Allergic angina
Kidney failure
Guillain Barre syndrome
Optic neuritis
Stevens Johnson Syndrome
Serum sickness
Thrombocytopenia
Liver necrosis
Cellulitis
Necrotising fasciitis

Oh and of course, before I forget, anaphylaxis which seems to have stolen the limelight but is rarely fatal (1 per 1000 ish) because it's so easily diagnosed.

The toll on the NHS from wasp stings is massive and the amount of human suffering is considerable.

Just wouldn't like to see you become another unnecessary victim Adrian! Much rather have you posting photos than someone posting an obituary!

Surprised the human race is still around! Happy to live and let live with these wonderful creatures - have the luxury of a balance of nature here of course!
Personally have no reaction to wasp stings (other than pain) but my lovely bees cause all sorts of unsightly swellings! (and pain)

 

[waverider]

The toll on the NHS from wasp stings is massive and the amount of human suffering is considerable.

Do you have any evidence to support this? And how much is ' massive'?

 

[Karol]

Yes is the short answer.

The long answer is google any of the medical terms listed above suffixed with wasp sting and you can review the evidence to your hearts' content.

This is interesting:

http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/74/1/134.2.full.html

Incidentally wasps aren't all bad.

This is interesting:

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB11550/prov-mont-hes-admi-outp-ae-apr-may-13-14-toi-rep.pdf

The data comes from 'low problem' wasp years when wasp populations were decimated by freak weather and other factors. 2012 witnessed wasp populations fall by as much as 90%. Anyway, the 2011 data shows about 1000 people hospitalised from 'wasps, hornets and bees. Far fewer in 2012. However, the decline in wasp population in 2012 resulted in a much higher incidence of admissions due to other insect/arthropod bites which is not surprising really as wasps are probably the most prevalent natural predators of other insect pests that cause us serious health concerns.

This data is far from complete as a lot of hospital admissions are not coded very accurately, e.g. someone dying from a wasp sting induced heart attack is likely to get coded as simply a heart attack. Also the data doesn't cover primary care and in any given year there can be as many as 400,000 patient episodes in primary care due to wasp stings.

So whilst I may caution about taking unnecessary risks and help deal with wasp problems, I have a healthy respect for wasps as a beneficial insect that we miss treat at our own (ecological) peril.

 

[AdrianSmith]

The long answer is google any of the medical terms listed above suffixed with wasp sting and you can review the evidence to your hearts' content.

I'm not disagreeing with anything, but if the number of results surprise you then it's worth trying other queries for balance.

From "Myocardial Infarction wasp sting", google gives me "About 13,300 results".
From "Myocardial Infarction bee sting", google gives me "About 47,400 results".
From "Myocardial Infarction hornet sting", google gives me "About 2,530 results".
From "Myocardial Infarction dog bite", google gives me "About 56,100 results".

 

[Karol]

I'm not surprised by the numbers nor do I put much store by them - the number of hits on Google is not particularly scientific. There are more dog owners than there are bee keepers and comparatively few people actually have an interest in wasps. It only stands to reason that this will skew numbers to give a false representation of what's going on.

Go ogling does however provide access to scientific/medical papers which are scrutinised and therefore give a more credible insight into the risks associated with wasps.