honey warmer thermostat which one?

[user 6228]

Well ... yeah ... but not constantly changing - like in an autopilot, or in a steel-rolling mill where quenching might takes place intermittently, or in a high-speed paper web (think newspaper printing machines), where sudden step changes in error - and in the rate of change in error- can be real buggers to control.

But I think we essentially agree - although is achieving set-point rapidly without overshoot really a priority here ?

In my experience, the main problem with the use of PID controllers is not with the controllers themselves, but rather with the people who want to use them - for there is so often an expectation that they can work miracles.
Even in an inherently unstable system, it is so often expected that just hooking-up an expensive wizzo device (at least they used to be expensive - my guess is that the Eurotherm 810's that I used to use still are ...) will instantly be able to control anything - and of course, that's just so much cobblers.

The really important thing which is so often overlooked in applications such as this, is to keep the thermal transfer medium well stirred - just the simple investment in a small fan to keep the warm air circulating will improve temperature control significantly.

LJ

This is a lump of a honey, a uniform viscous liquid, nothing thermally weird or challenging apart from the insects made it. However thermal overshoot will impair its quality and increase the HMF. The Pid we have here gets regularly swapped between a 60W heater in 0.75m3 seed incubator and a 48w heater heating up a 75mmx25mm piece of ally with no fiddling by the beekeeper /gardner/bontanist operator , who has remarked on the better germination she gets and the ease of use of the staining material (btw we also have a Eurotherm 91e) Since my views here are in the minority I will leave you to your state of the ark bi-metallic strips.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Thanks lots of useful info I think I'm gonna go for the none pid one to keep it simple. Probably will try a 60w tube heater and see where I go from there rather than buying light fitting then wanting to change it, however may got one to try. Certainly will bear in mind placement issue. It want it all to flat pack so it takes less space so need to try and find a happy medium.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Wish I knew what the hell you were talking about lol ...

It would be handy if somebody could upload a picture of the finished article, showing where everything goes.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

It would be handy if somebody could upload a picture of the finished article, showing where everything goes.

I was thinking the same thing will try to remember todo this!

 

[Little John]

The Pid we have here gets regularly swapped between a 60W heater in 0.75m3 seed incubator and a 48w heater heating up a 75mmx25mm piece of ally with no fiddling by the beekeeper /gardner/bontanist operator ,

Some of us were talking about the principles involved - not one particular installation - there's no need to start getting all hissy-fits because other people (some with a lifetime of experience in this area) disagree with you.

LJ

 

[user 6228]

Some of us were talking about the principles involved - not one particular installation - there's no need to start getting all hissy-fits because other people (some with a lifetime of experience in this area) disagree with you.

LJ

"hissy fits"? you protest too much ...
whats that about? ... One moment now...i see the sentence below and understand. The sentence below was clearly meant to call someone into doubt. You thought, I thought it was me? surely not.

"In my experience, the main problem with the use of PID controllers is not with the controllers themselves, but rather with the people who want to use them - for there is so often an expectation that they can work miracles. "

Now you have called it to my attention, I will leave you to advise from "lifetime of experience" in this thread and look to "work miracles" elsewhere..

 

[oliver90owner]

All this talk of PID - a more simplistic P controller is perfectly adequate for this application as the integral and differential parts will just not be required.

Personally, I prefer the dimmer type as the heating element will never be stressed with a full current surge, after the initial start up.

KISS principle is good; bi-metallic strips are likely good enough for applications like this. Hysteresis for an alternative, which is poorly designed, could be about the same. The size and mass of the heater is more important with some designs, so as not to overshoot the target temperature. Saying that, heating honey is not rocket science and most beekeepers got along nicely with a couple of incandescent light bulbs (before health and safety was thought of). Nobody in their right mind would consider designing a warmer of that type these days, of course.

 

[user 6228]

http://www.beekeeping.com/apiacta/hmf_us.htm

 

[Alabamaeee]

Been using a thermostatically controlled heating element for egg incubation, 100 Egg DIY incubator Kit. Similar to the type sold by TH$%^es but half the price from a poultry equipment suppliers Google "Patrick Pinker". About £60

Anyway the temp control is very accurate 1-2 degrees max when stabilised and it works great in a small fridge I converted to a cabinet.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Finally got round to wiring it an on pins 1&2 connected a switch, 3&4 240volts and 5&6 temp sensor. Display lots nd works heat mode activate and you here built in relay clicking On but nothing. No voltage on 1&2 any ideas is it something stupid like I need another relay?

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Turns out the guy selling the thermostat I went for is a bad seller and item was not functioning. So back to the drawing board need to find another seller now with an item that works!

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Had a quick look - this looks to be the best.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Digi...arden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item4d0eac85bc

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Had a quick look - this looks to be the best.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Digi...arden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item4d0eac85bc

Think i'm talking to myself =). Well after all that it may be a simple case of the chinese crappy instructions were wrong. Some nice photos over on thread below. I even spotted oliver90owner over there .

http://www.brewuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2804

 

[oliver90owner]

I would think the ATC800 (I think) would be cheaper as it has only a single pair of contacts. You don't need a second set of contacts (for cooling) for this application.

These thermostats are used widely, seem simple and bullet-proof. The STC1000 type are often adopted by home brewers for fermentaion temperature control.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

I would think the ATC800 (I think) would be cheaper as it has only a single pair of contacts. You don't need a second set of contacts (for cooling) for this application.

These thermostats are used widely, seem simple and bullet-proof. The STC1000 type are often adopted by home brewers for fermentaion temperature control.

Went for the one in the brewuk forum gonna wire it up minus the cold socket - may eventually use it for homebrew too but that might be a lot later in my lifetime as I dont have time to fit it all in at the moment!

 

[BeeJayBee]

Think i'm talking to myself =).

You get a less challenging conversation that way, usually!

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Finally built electronics a few weeks and tried out insulation in make shift solution. Think i've not cut the insulation 100% straight and lots of holes. Was getting upto around 27oC but was in new unheated conservatory with dehumidifier on. Thrown some towels on it in hope it helps a bit as was hoping to enter some honey Saturday is not looking hopeful though.

 

[user 6228]

Seal the holes with tape . Where possible both sides

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Seal the holes with tape . Where possible both sides

Probably easier said than done being that large its rather wobbly. Need to have a think long term about cutting it down to fit settling tank plus some jars in.

 

[itma]

... tried out insulation in make shift solution. Think i've not cut the insulation 100% straight and lots of holes. ...

I used a straight edge and a couple of different knives to cut Celotex. A really sharp scalpel type makes a clean cut through the foil, and then a serrated knife saws through the foam nicely. Then back to the scalpel for a clean cut through the far-side foil.
The straighter and squarer the edge you can make, the better insulated your box will end up.

I assembled using cocktail sticks as dowels, and held things together by taping the joints, both sides, with aluminium (greenhouse) tape - mine came from Lidl a while ago. Seems to work. But managed to use almost a whole 15m £1.50 roll on one tea-cosy for a Payn nuc+2ekes ... (and that used a surprising amount of Celotex too.)

Has anyone tried using gap-filling foam adhesive to stick this stuff together?