Hive With Zero Brood

[nmesmeric]

Hey Guys,

I have 3 hives, two of which are doing well. they have plenty of stores and good laying pattern.

One hive is full of bees, but there is not a single egg! All I found was 2 open swarm cells. (I have no idea when they may have swarmed, as I don't remember seeing these last year unless it was very late in the season)

What do I do here, shift a frame of eggs from another hive into the brood box?

Thank you!

Felix

 

[Ian123]

If there still holding together as a unit probably a runty queen running around. If there’s no brood the bees left are likely to old at this point. I wouldn’t waste a frame from another at this point. Just as inclined to knock the whole lot out.

 

[steve1958]

No eggs, so no laying workers which is good.
Possibly an unmated Queen, which you would need to find before planning to replace her.
Possibly an old Queen, again you would need to find her.
You could try adding a test frame (containing some eggs) from another hive to see if they try building Queen cells.
Have they got sufficient food?

 

[nmesmeric]

No eggs, so no laying workers which is good.
Possibly an unmated Queen, which you would need to find before planning to replace her.
Possibly an old Queen, again you would need to find her.
You could try adding a test frame (containing some eggs) from another hive to see if they try building Queen cells.
Have they got sufficient food?

Thanks for the advice guys. I have added a frame containing eggs from another hive.

They have a number of frames full of stores in the hive.

Will see what happens!

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have added a frame containing eggs from another hive.

They have a number of frames full of stores in the hive.

Will see what happens!

Personally I would not have bothered at this stage ...its not the first time I've seen a queen not laying well after other colonies are blasting away ... you have to ask yourself what have you achieved ?

1. You have weakened a potentially strong colony in favour of a weak one.

2. You may or may not have satisfied your curiosity as to whether there is a queen present

3. if (in the unlikely event that they raise a queen cell ) its still going to be quite early for a mating flight.

If you were that desperate to know they are queen less you could have just cut a couple of square inches of cells with eggs out and inserted them into a frame on your suspect hive ...

Strengthening a weak colony (moreover at this point in the season) at a cost to a strong colony is rarely a good idea. I'd have given them another couple of weeks and if no sign of brood at that stage seive them to make sure there is no queen there and then combine with another colony ...

Sometimes you have to accept there are no hopers and act accordingly...

 

[nmesmeric]

Thanks for the advice Pargyle. I could potentially move the frame back as I like your idea of just taking a small cutting!

My latest theory is that the hive is busy as it being robbed? So basically it's packed with looting bees, is this feasible?

 

[Boston Bees]

My latest theory is that the hive is busy as it being robbed? So basically it's packed with looting bees, is this feasible?

Possible yes. Are bees bringing in pollen to this hive? If so there must be a colony in there of some kind. If not ......

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for the advice Pargyle. I could potentially move the frame back as I like your idea of just taking a small cutting!

My latest theory is that the hive is busy as it being robbed? So basically it's packed with looting bees, is this feasible?

Well - it's always possible but it would have to be a pretty weak colonyor a dead out at this time of the year ... as above .. if they are bringing in polln they are alive ...

 

[Antipodes]

Hey Guys,

I have 3 hives, two of which are doing well. they have plenty of stores and good laying pattern.

One hive is full of bees, but there is not a single egg! All I found was 2 open swarm cells. (I have no idea when they may have swarmed, as I don't remember seeing these last year unless it was very late in the season)

What do I do here, shift a frame of eggs from another hive into the brood box?

Thank you!

Felix

Just a thought. Do you think they may have been supersedure cells as opposed to swarm cells?

I had a two colonies replace a queen by supersedure very early last year. From memory, one colony started in late winter, with mating in very early spring, and up at about 250m too, so a cool area. She is doing well now. The other one was not as early, (early spring cell) and produced about 20kg of surplus, but that was in a warmer area.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just a thought. Do you think they may have been supersedure cells as opposed to swarm cells?

unless the bees have put a big label on them to tell us what they are - they are just Queen Cells. The only cells you can reliably identify are emergency queen cells.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Agree. People say bees swarm on supersedure cells. They don’t

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

People say bees swarm on supersedure cells. They don’t

That's because people assume that just because one of the cells is in the middle of a frame it automatically becomes a 'supersedure cell'.

 

[Arfermo]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have added a frame containing eggs from another hive.

They have a number of frames full of stores in the hive.

Will see what happens!

Adding a frame of eggs will do no harm whatsoever providing it comes from a 'safe' place.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's because people assume that just because one of the cells is in the middle of a frame it automatically becomes a 'supersedure cell'.

Exactly. They aren’t supersedure cells they are swarm cells.

 

[ericbeaumont]

All I found was 2 open swarm cells.

As Dani said: supersedure, not swarm.

Late in the year they won't swarm on supersedure, but at the height of the season better to treat supersedure as swarm, because if they're in the mood they might.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As Dani said: supersedure, not swarm.

No she didn't

 

[ericbeaumont]

No she didn't

I should read more slowly.

Doesn't matter where a QC is found, it could be anything. Number of cells is more indicative of intention, and I reckon 2 cells suggest supersedure.

If Felix finds an unmated Q running about then it was late 2020 supersedure.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If there is a queen in the hive, there's a fair chance that without smoke being used when the hive is opened up, the queen is on the introduced brood frame - where she 'should' be.
If there is a concern that the hive is being robbed, it can be closed up in the evening. In the following morning when bees are flying, the ones outside will be robbers trying to get in. Then you'll know.