Hive internal temperature monitoring

[user 6228]

Taking the detailed science aside....is there a practical issue involved?

High insulation allows for a higher level of humidity. Honey bees have to maintain high humidity micro-climates for eggs and larvae 90% and 75% +. Higher background humidity makes it easier to achieve and maintain them. In addition higher humidities reduce varroa breeding success.

 

[Beefriendly]

High insulation allows for a higher level of humidity. Honey bees have to maintain high humidity micro-climates for eggs and larvae 90% and 75% +. Higher background humidity makes it easier to achieve and maintain them. In addition higher humidities reduce varroa breeding success.

Amazing they ever produced bees in those drafty old un-insulated wooden hives. Varroa seem to thrive regardless of humidity levels.

 

[Finman]

High insulation allows for a higher level of humidity. Honey bees have to maintain high humidity micro-climates for eggs and larvae 90% and 75% +. Higher background humidity makes it easier to achieve and maintain them. In addition higher humidities reduce varroa breeding success.

What ever humidity you have in the hive, varroa kills always the colony.

And there are only one humidity- varroa research from jungle confitions.

Brood area has always same temperature. How could it be higher relative moisture/humidity?

I would imagine, that when it is a good flow, and bees dry up nectar, humiditu is high in the hive. And what then? What you can do? Just keep fingers out of the hive and let the bees forage in peace.

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[TooBee...]

In addition higher humidities reduce varroa breeding success.

From memory, the research that I read (which I discovered via DerekM - thanks) found that if humidity was maintained above 80% in the brood chamber then only 2% of varroa were able to reproduce, this resulted in terminal decline in their population - hence the reason why I got interested in the "dew point" information, as my primary concern with having a hive with that high level of humidity was the possible condensation.

My secondary concern was that at 80% humidity the bees cannot get the water content of their honey down low enough ... but I'm guessing that they somehow overcome it in part due to the tallness of a natural (tree cavity) wild hive. There appears to be a special dance that they do, walking down the comb and then turning and dancing upwards to draw less humid and also cooler air upwards, the humidity and temperature drops, then the bees begin producing heat and the temperature rises again, but with a lower humidity, so they certainly seem to be regulating their humidity levels! Clever little girls aren't they!

 

[Finman]

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The basic is, that European mellifera cannot live in jungle conditions. That is why scutellata was imported to South America.

And who heck goes and rises his beehives' humidity. I have not heard about such treatment. To kill mites with water!

The research has been published 20 years ago and nothing has happened after that.
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Hang on in reality!

 

[Finman]

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The basic is, that European mellifera cannot live in jungle conditions. That is why scutellata was imported to South America.

And who heck goes and rises his beehives' humidity. I have not heard about such treatment. To kill mites with water!


What I know about humifity, I can kill hives in winter and Nosema kills a lot of bees in moist conditions.

Under moist snow bees over winter much more worse than in open air.

 

[user 6228]

Amazing they ever produced bees in those drafty old un-insulated wooden hives. Varroa seem to thrive regardless of humidity levels.

It is indeed amazing. However, when you look at the detailed fluid mechanics, the structure and properties of the comb give the honeybee the ability with their behaviours to maintain the microclimates they need in strongly sub-optimal conditions. Little subtle facts of the cells being near horizontal and have a high length to width ratio, empty comb at the outside of the nest...

However, because they are tough should we give them sub-optimal housing that makes their life more difficult?

 

[user 6228]

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The basic is, that European mellifera cannot live in jungle conditions. That is why scutellata was imported to South America.

And who heck goes and rises his beehives' humidity. I have not heard about such treatment. To kill mites with water!


What I know about humifity, I can kill hives in winter and Nosema kills a lot of bees in moist conditions.

Under moist snow bees over winter much more worse than in open air.

You need to understand how condensation, relative humidity, heat loss and temperature interact. e.g. condensation is not high humidity, and is often associated with low humidity, and Condensate is not always unpleasantly cold. etc etc

 

[Lancs Lad]

DerekM
Has your personal research led you to a different design for hive floors?

 

[Finman]

You need to understand how condensation, relative humidity, heat loss and temperature interact. e.g. condensation is not high humidity, and is often associated with low humidity, and Condensate is not always unpleasantly cold. etc etc

Those are only chain of words. Nothing else. No need to umderstand.

 

[Finman]

and Condensate is not always unpleasantly cold. etc etc

Yesh I know. When I go to sauna, my skin is perhaps 30C and the sauna's moist temp is perhaps + 70C, water condensates onto skin. That is pleasant and that is why we go into sauna path.

But when I come from -20C frost to indoors, moisture condensates onto my eye glasses. That is unpleasant.

But nothing to do beekeeping....

 

[user 6228]

DerekM
Has your personal research led you to a different design for hive floors?

we have gone for underfloor entrances with solid floors. The limiting factor on insulation is the floor/entrance design. You need to increase the vertical distance between the occupied area and the openings to take the benefit of any insulation beyond a basic poly hive. It makes thermal sense and the bee swarms preferentially select bottom entrances so they want it as well if they can find it.

 

[user 6228]

Yesh I know. When I go to sauna, my skin is perhaps 30C and the sauna's moist temp is perhaps + 70C, water condensates onto skin. That is pleasant and that is why we go into sauna path.

But when I come from -20C frost to indoors, moisture condensates onto my eye glasses. That is unpleasant.

But nothing to do beekeeping....

but

Bees preferentially select warm water sources.

 

[Beefriendly]

However, when you look at the detailed fluid mechanics, the structure and properties of the comb

I'd rather not.

 

[Finman]

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Do I look fluid mechanims ?

No, I prefer TV.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Derekm
Thanks for that, I have just completed converting a Paynes poly floor to underfloor entrance.
If this is a means of keeping varroa numbers low it begs the question are varroa mesh floors actually detrimental to hive health.

 

[Finman]

Derekm

If this is a means of keeping varroa numbers low it begs the question are varroa mesh floors actually detremental to hive health.

Don't even imagine. Such results does not exist.
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There are so much experience about mesh floor, 30 years, that it has been seen, what it is.

 

[Swarm]

Derekm
Thanks for that, I have just completed converting a Paynes poly floor to underfloor entrance.
If this is a means of keeping varroa numbers low it begs the question are varroa mesh floors actually detremental to hive health.

Really? Based on what?

 

[user 6228]

Really? Based on what?

Conventional mesh floors are a cause of heat loss(done the experiments and simulations). How much in which configuration/circumstances is a complex question. It comes up regularly at talks and Elaine gives me the evil eye if I look as though I'm disappearing down this vast rat hole.

There's some thing in Bee World this quarter about this topic but its not that informative

 

[Angry_Mob]

Derekm
Thanks for that, I have just completed converting a Paynes poly floor to underfloor entrance.
If this is a means of keeping varroa numbers low it begs the question are varroa mesh floors actually detrimental to hive health.

Do you have any pictures? Would like to see.