Hive condensation - ?worth trying calcium chloride desiccant?

[For want of a better word]

Or perhaps these JBM bach!

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or perhaps these JBM bach!

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Super! are those the official BBKA matchsticks that we've all been eagerly waiting for?

 

[pargyle]

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"I'm not aware of anyone suggesting sleeping with loft hatch and all windows open - trickle vents is what houses need."

And with the front and back door wide open as well in some cases !!

NB It looked like the bee farmer on Horizon a few weeks back how suffered loads of winter losses had NO insulation and NO crownboards

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Super! are those the official BBKA matchsticks that we've all been eagerly waiting for?

I'm a newbie and will keep my mouth shut but let's just say I don't think my bees have read the September BBKA news, with its view that "feeding is completed" (implicitly by 30 Sept.)

 

[For want of a better word]

Or perhaps these JBM bach!

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OH YES.... special safety matches that will even strike in the damp... even underwater !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't think my bees have read the September BBKA news, with its view that "feeding is completed" (implicitly by 30 Sept.)

Completed! I haven't even started it yet!!

 

[Skyhook]

Pardon my French B*LL*CKS!!!!

Thats OK- we didn't kmow you had french B*LL*CKS, but chacun a son gout!



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[Skyhook]

A frequent dictum on the forum is 'excess moisture in the hive over winter is a greater risk than low temperature'. Pics of condensation droplets have been posted.
When I owned a small boat I used to put a couple of pounds of calcium chloride crystals in an empty ice cream container on the saloon floor; after a few weeks it was often full of liquid. Caravan owners also use it.
As per google search, CaCl2 is a desiccant and is licensed for use in the food and pharmaceutical industries so does not give off noxious fumes etc.
I wonder if it could be deployed in our hives over winter?

As there hasn't been a complete and direct reply- the answer is no. Bees need a moist enough atmosphere that they are not being dessicated- what in greenhouse horticulture is known as a 'buoyant atmosphere'. The danger is from actual wetness from condensation, and as has been discussed at length there are 2 ways to deal with this- the old method of top ventilation and a throught draught, which means the bees have to use a lot more energy, and can be subject to isolation starvation; or the newer method of top insulation combined with bottom ventilation which seems to give the best of all worlds.


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[Little John]

When I owned a small boat I used to put a couple of pounds of calcium chloride crystals in an empty ice cream container on the saloon floor; after a few weeks it was often full of liquid. Caravan owners also use it.

As per google search, CaCl2 is a desiccant and is licensed for use in the food and pharmaceutical industries so does not give off noxious fumes etc.
I wonder if it could be deployed in our hives over winter?

The answer is no - but not for any of the reasons previously given.

A boat hull or caravan present pretty-much as 'sealed rooms', in which Calcium Chloride could conceivably be used to reduce the moisture level within those static environments, although imho Silicia Gel is a much better proposition (which is what I use) as it's re-usable.

A beehive, on the other hand, has openings to the elements, and is occupied by creatures who will insist on circulating the air within it, thus ensuring that any air which would have been dried by your dessicant is duly replaced. Thus any dessicant deployed would face a continuous uphill battle, until it was finally exhausted.

Despite the mocking which accompanies any mention of matchsticks, the judicious use of top ventilation can save the expenditure of energy which would otherwise be required to fan large volumes of warm, moist air out of the hive bottom, at times when the bees are dehydrating their stores - but for some reason beekeepers are no longer prepared to adjust their hives according to the seasons - but are looking for a one-approach solution in their pursuit of 'the perfect hive'.

LJ

 

[pargyle]

Completed! I haven't even started it yet!!

Well ...you obviously also haven't read the September issue of BBKA News either ... shame on you !

I started feeding in the colder spell a week or so ago and then stopped as this milder spell sent the girls off in all directions and they appear to be filling the space up quite well without more syrup. They only had about 4 litres of 2:1.

Looks like they are well into the ivy at present so I'm inclined to let them get on with it now ... see what the weather does in the next week or so.

 

[user 6228]

I think you all need to go and read the "Idiots guide to physics"

with just the open entrance the the thermal circulation will be sufficient.
(remember heat rises where it then cools and decends again)
The open mesh is really superflous.

You dont need trickle vents if someone has nicked the front door and all the internal doors. And if they come back to take the loft hatch ... shoot them.

And One other thing to think about is that the little blighters come with air circulation fans already attached.
They really are quite good at it... how else do you think they shift a half ton of water in a summer.

 

[For want of a better word]

Completed! I haven't even started it yet!!

The triple brood box tower block WBCs have gobbled down 30 litres of 2:1 thymolated syrup and are chasing me around the apiary with their tongues hanging out begging for more... even started to eat the Ashforth feeders to get at any remnants of sugar..... the manageress at our Kelliwick branch of Tesco thought I was totally lost of marbles when I ordered £600 worth of 5kg bags.

And on another thread there is a guy bitching he can make no money from bees... thoroughly agree with him !

 

[itma]

...
Despite the mocking which accompanies any mention of matchsticks, the judicious use of top ventilation can save the expenditure of energy which would otherwise be required to fan large volumes of warm, moist air out of the hive bottom, at times when the bees are dehydrating their stores - but for some reason beekeepers are no longer prepared to adjust their hives according to the seasons - but are looking for a one-approach solution in their pursuit of 'the perfect hive'.

LJ

Even I have been heard to say that IN A HEATWAVE a bit of top ventilation might do no harm.

But not when its cold.
Or even, like now, just slightly cool.


The problem that Wedmore was addressing with matchsticks under the crownboard was his solid floors rotting.
Well, that problem no longer needs solving...



If anyone wants to rail against someone that really ought to know better, try Yates. In the 2012 Green Book, there are the matchsticks as part of winter prep ...

 

[user 6228]

the judicious use of top ventilation can save the expenditure of energy which would otherwise be required to fan large volumes of warm, moist air out of the hive bottom, at times when the bees are dehydrating their stores - but for some reason beekeepers are no longer prepared to adjust their hives according to the seasons - but are looking for a one-approach solution in their pursuit of 'the perfect hive'.

LJ

Air doubles its water carrying capacity every 10C To dehydrate the nectar, they raise the temperature in the hive. So by adding ventilation that reduces the temperature they can attain i.e overwhelming their heat generation capacity, you make them shift more air not less. They need to add lots of energy to make the honey ripen.

 

[Little John]

And One other thing to think about is that the little blighters come with air circulation fans already attached.

And muscles already attached with which to generate heat.

They really are quite good at it... how else do you think they shift a half ton of water in a summer.

And how much energy do they expend in the process - moving moist air in the opposite direction from that which it would 'normally' take of it's own accord ?

 

[Little John]

But not when its cold.
Or even, like now, just slightly cool.

What did I write ?: "adjust their hives according to the seasons" Who said anything about 'now' ?

 

[Little John]

I think you all need to go and read the "Idiots guide to physics"

But beekeeping isn't about physics - it's about biology.

 

[user 6228]

And muscles already attached with which to generate heat.



And how much energy do they expend in the process - moving moist air in the opposite direction from that which it would 'normally' take of it's own accord ?

as it cools from contact with the shell of the hive it descends. so Iwould not assume they are working "up hill".

 

[user 6228]

But beekeeping isn't about physics - it's about biology.

Biology is about Physics.

A powerstation, the hadron collider, Stars, Comets and bees all inhabit the same universe with the same "rules". And if you know something about these rules they make bees all the more facinating in th way they exploit the properties of their nest

Combining a winter refuge, a city, and sugar refining plant all into one tree cavity is quite "Amazing" (in best Brian cox voice)

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I think the real burden of this thread is that bees are pretty robust to the various tortures we put them through... Like wires - WIRES - in the comb.