Got my first swarm today

[theeggman]

The swarm we hived on Thurs decided to return to the tree before dark, so we left them for most of Fri and they rehoused themselves. Moved to the apiary this am (15ft.).

Sometimes it goes right.

 

[snelgrove]

Other than varroa, you'd probably have to take the risk of the possibility of EFB or AFB until the first brood is produced. But hopefully they're extremely healthy.

Yes but you said quickly, with a newly hived swarm , what brood?

 

[misterbee82]

Is it possible to wait until first brood, or would they become orientated with the bait box by then? Because if they wouldn't get orientated by then I would wait to transfer them, and then you could detect all issues. Otherwise transferring them quickly and taking the risk might be the only option to avoid orientation issues.

 

[snelgrove]

Is it possible to wait until first brood, or would they become orientated with the bait box by then? Because if they wouldn't get orientated by then I would wait to transfer them, and then you could detect all issues. Otherwise transferring them quickly and taking the risk might be the only option to avoid orientation issues.

you lost me off

 

[misterbee82]

I am reevaluating my original idea, unless waiting for the first brood would be a problem. I hope that makes what I said make a bit more sense.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I am reevaluating my original idea, unless waiting for the first brood would be a problem. I hope that makes what I said make a bit more sense.

Not really. The flying bees would orient quite quickly once the colony decided to stay put, think about a day more or less. How long do you think it would take for the queen (which may or may not be a virgin needing time to be mated) to start to lay, the eggs to hatch, the larvae to develop (if they are diseased you just might be able to spot the symptoms at this stage) and the brood to be capped? Even if your swarm was prime and the box contained drawn comb their little sat navs would be programmed before any disease would be seen.
You have a lot of learning to do and babbling in the forum helps no one. I'm really hoping you take the message on board and restrict your "advice" until it's more knowledge based or logical.

 

[snelgrove]

Not really. The flying bees would orient quite quickly once the colony decided to stay put, think about a day more or less. How long do you think it would take for the queen (which may or may not be a virgin needing time to be mated) to start to lay, the eggs to hatch, the larvae to develop (if they are diseased you just might be able to spot the symptoms at this stage) and the brood to be capped? Even if your swarm was prime and the box contained drawn comb their little sat navs would be programmed before any disease would be seen.
You have a lot of learning to do and babbling in the forum helps no one. I'm really hoping you take the message on board and restrict your "advice" until it's more knowledge based or logical.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I suspect attitudes are changed by experience. Fortunately I've not had any of of the foul broodsin my apiaries: those unfortunates I know that have now takes all aspects of biosecurity seriously.

You make a good point but in my location the foulbroods are fortunately exceedingly rare and when the incoming swarm has already settled in the apiary it's too late.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I would transfer them quickly, then get an SBI there to check the swarm/hive for signs of problems. If there are any issues you could then have a headstart on starting treatment for them.

An SBI (Seasonal Bee Inspector) isn't going to be too pleased about being called out to look at a colony with no brood "just in case" they might be sick, when they could be spending their time inspecting colonies that are genuinely poorly and also have some means of diagnosis - i.e. brood!

Standard procedure for hiving a swarm is to leave it to its own devices for three days so they use all the food they've carried with them, and any pathogens should be locked in the new comb. Then feed a light syrup until they've drawn enough comb to start storing nectar. Then stop feeding, but monitor.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would transfer them quickly, then get an SBI there to check the swarm/hive for signs of problems.

You honestly think an SBI is going to come out and check each captured swarm. Do you know what SBI's do, how many there are and how long they're around for?

I am reevaluating my original idea, unless waiting for the first brood would be a problem. I hope that makes what I said make a bit more sense.

Nothing makes sense really. Maybe you should wait until you know what you're talking about before pitching in.

You have a lot of learning to do and babbling in the forum helps no one. I'm really hoping you take the message on board and restrict your "advice" until it's more knowledge based or logical.

 

[For want of a better word]

Isolating a capture is a good idea if you do not know its origin.

Call in your SBI once the colony has produced brood IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS OVER DISEASE and can not recognise foulbrood yourself.

Now I thought that would be common sense... not much in abundance these days!!

Nos da

 

[Eyeman]

IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS OVER DISEASE and can not recognise foulbrood yourself.

Overall we aren't that good at recognising disease as 9 out of 10 cases of foul brood are first identified by a bee inspector.

 

[pargyle]

Overall we aren't that good at recognising disease as 9 out of 10 cases of foul brood are first identified by a bee inspector.

Well ... I don't know where that statistic came from but I rather doubt it's validity .. nine out of ten CONFIRMED by a Bee Inspector perhaps ? I really can't believe that even the newest beekeeper would not recognise the signs of AFB or EFB and call the RBI in if they were uncertain. If people can't recognise the signs of the foulbroods there is something seriously wrong with our beekeeper training or the communication throughout beekeeping.

 

[pargyle]

I would transfer them quickly, then get an SBI there to check the swarm/hive for signs of problems. If there are any issues you could then have a headstart on starting treatment for them.

Sorry ... this is pretty poor advice - you really need to think and learn a bit more before giving advice like this.

1. It will be a week or two before there is any real brood to inspect.

2. Our RBI's are thin on the ground and very busy generally, whilst they are obliging and helpful I can't see a reason for involving them UNLESS there is a suspected disease problem of a notifiable nature.

3. Any competent beekeeper (or incompetent one) should be capable of inspecting their bees (newly collected swarm or established colony) if they are not then they should not be keeping bees until they have learned enough to do the most basic of beekeeping tasks.

4. There are no 'treatments' available for AFB/EFB in the UK .. AFB requires colonies to be destroyed and some of the equipment burned and the rest sterilised - it's a mandatory notifiable disease and there are no alternatives to colony destruction. It's how we keep the UK (mostly) clear of this awful condition - there are relatively small numbers of AFB found annually in the UK compared to the number of colonies kept by beekeepers.

 

[Eyeman]

Well ... I don't know where that statistic came from but I rather doubt it's validity .

This came from the horses mouth. At one of the national bee disease awareness days 3 years ago. Hopefully these away days have improved our vigilance and detection rate.

"Foul brood was identified first by an inspector during a routine inspection or an inspection carried out within a radius of a know outbreak in 9 out 10 cases. "

 

[Into the lions den]

This came from the horses mouth. At one of the national bee disease awareness days 3 years ago. Hopefully these away days have improved our vigilance and detection rate.

"Foul brood was identified first by an inspector during a routine inspection or an inspection carried out within a radius of a know outbreak in 9 out 10 cases. "

Its an accurate statement, but what it means is officially recorded ones. It does not say that though.

There are wrinkles on that that are not the stuff for open forum.

 

[BeeJayBee]

"Foul brood was identified first by an inspector during a routine inspection or an inspection carried out within a radius of a know outbreak in 9 out 10 cases. "

Some inspectors can spot a single AFB cell on a frame. I doubt that many ordinary beekeepers would have either the knowledge or the experience to be ablle to do that, partly because they'll only have seen pictures in books or on the internet.

It's the same with EFB and is probably why there are far more false alarms, and more SBI inspections, than actual cases.

No RBI or SBI is going to be able to identify a brood disease unless there's some brood in the hive so calling them out to inspect a freshly collected swarm, with no symptoms other than a nervous beekeeper, is wasting their time.

 

[thebhoy]

Yesterday morning all seemed ok and the bees were going about their business in a nice manner..... late afternoon I returned from a shopping trip to see the air full of bees as if they were swarming off again
Opened up the box and checked what was actually in it, they had been cleaning old comb and had drawn their own comb filling up with stores...no eggs seen.

Went through the bees and could not find any queen, loads of bees everywhere, landing on trees, walls etc but none of them fanning at hive although some were returning with stores and pollen.

Decided to move them into a nuc...there were so many still flying around the garden at 9pm last night. I was thinking they may have had a virgin queen and she may have got lost on a mating flight.

Decided to move the nuc into my apiary...couldn't risk them doing the same as yesterday and annoying the neighbours.

At the apiary they were fine and calm...I decided to give them a frame of eggs and capped brood from another colony, it was only then that they started fanning.

Will check later in the week to see if they have started to draw queen cells.

Positive side is that they were /are nice bees and with all the messing about no attempts to sting.