First Swarm and tired out

[badger65]

I was kindly given a swarm this morning. I put a ramp up to a poly nut using a white sheet and they all walked in. I heard some sort of trumpeting noise and they all walked out. I followed them to two houses down where they settled at the top of the skinniest tree in the garden. After risking life and limb, they are all going into a box as I speak. I will dump them into a proper brood box with a QX under later this evening. My other hive is only a nut so I can't spare the eggs.

 

[user 6228]

full size hive facing south darkened floor entrance less than 20 Sq cms if you want to win over the nest selection commitee

 

[badger65]

Ok they are in a box. I have looked at the hive they where in and there seems to be a small dead queen. Question. Would they cluster together all in the same cardboard box if there was no queen. If she is a goner, what are my options. Join them with my colony? If I get eggs from my colony will they be able to produce a queen?

 

[badger65]

Help welcome

 

[Heather]

Yes they will cluster, as they still have pheromones attracting them.
Give them a little syrup feed to hold them.
Can you not spare 1 frame of eggs? That will keep them and they will develop a queen. If not have you a bee buddy that can bring a frame of eggs to you?
If really queenless, a newspaper join is another option.

 

[badger65]

Will I need to knock all old donor bees of the frame before I deposit it.

 

[ratcatcher]

Will I need to knock all old donor bees of the frame before I deposit it.

of course, a simple downward thrust with the frame gets them off
as per

http://youtu.be/fz5SXeJ7L7c

 

[Finman]

Excluder forces them stay in and a brood frame too.
Let them first draw foundations and then look in peace what you do.
Wait couple of days before you feed them.

It is better start to a colony if one box is full of bees. Joining is good idea.

 

[badger65]

Thanks guys. I had to act before I read your replies. I have put in about 6 frames of drawn comb, 1 of partially draw foundation with eggs and 2 new frames of foundation. I have fed them and put on a QX for good measure. Lets see what happens. I presume that they should be able to use the eggs quickly and if not I will need to find some more.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You don't need a whole frame of eggs by the way. You can cut a bit out.....an inch or so square will do.

 

[badger65]

Thanks, The frame is only drawn partially on one side.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Best of luck and keep us posted

 

[badger65]

I don't think I've ever been so exhausted doing nothing. I'm glad everyone was at work when there where thousands of bees in the air.

 

[beeno]

Hi badger65,
Well done you. The trumpeting sound you heard, as from a party blower, was a queen piping. This means that there were more than one queen in the swarm. Therefore all is not lost in finding one dead queen. Put your ear to the hive tonight when all is quiet. If you hear more piping then there may still be more than one queen in there. If it is a cast you need to take QE off after three days for mating. Good luck, it is a wonderful hobby.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The trumpeting sound you heard, as from a party blower, was a queen piping. This means that there were more than one queen in the swarm.

Wrong I'm afraid - during the final swarming preparations workers will pipe not the queen. My guess with this example is that they went into the box - decided to vacate (swarm again) so the piping resumed and off they went.

'Preparation for swarming (the warm up period)...............there is an explosion of vibration signalling and some workers emit piping noises'

Doesn't mean there isn't a queen in there though. Multiple virgins usually pipe when they are imprisoned in their cells by the warder bees.

 

[oliver90owner]

Who is trying to kid who? Two queens in a new home and they might be there a day later? Utter rubbish.

Anyone with any semblance of knowledge knows that if you want to find a queen in a hive, just put in another and they will find each other, or one will find the other, PDQ.

A bit like another thread this am which seems like a suggestion analogous to a coach load of tourists arriving at a pub for a meal without warning, eating the place out of all supplies and then leaving.

What an imagination! Is the poster really expecting the reader to go listening at a recently homed colony and listening all night long - because it will take all of that and some more!

OP, this is a post-swarm colony, NOT a pre-swarming colony.

 

[badger65]

I only heard the piping twice and it sounded like it was from one individual. When I put them to bead last night they sounded quite displeased. I fed the 0.5 litre of 1:1(all the sugar I had) and this morning it sounds like they are working on the inside. I have put eggs in and will take the QX off tomorrow and hopefully they will be ok. i still have a nuc building up, so I can get access to more eggs if needs be. A bit of a shame if I have killed the queen as my nuc has CB and I was hoping to replace the queen in it for free. Also my nuc are dark bees and the swarm is a nice light colour. Lets see.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If it's a fresh swrm of unknown provenance you would have been better to wait a few days before feeding - if they are carrying any pathogens in the honey they have with them, these would then be 'locked in' the wax which they will make. Never mind, it was only half a litre, so leave it a few days before giving them any more.
Good this beekeeping lark innit ?

 

[BeeJayBee]

It's best to work with what you see and hear, no matter how unusual you think it might be, rather than try to fit one bit of information into the wrong scenario.

You're really lucky to have heard the bees piping prior to taking off, not many beekeepers will have been in the right place at the right time to hear it.

I only heard the piping twice and it sounded like it was from one individual.

Which nicely ties in with what JBM wrote, and matches recent research (2001) from Seeley and Tautz. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11763965

Worker piping in honey bee swarms and its role in preparing for liftoff.
... Pipers are excited bees which scramble through the swarm cluster, pausing every second or so to emit a pipe. Each pipe consists of a sound pulse which lasts 0.82 +/- 0.43 s and rises in fundamental frequency from 100-200 Hz to 200-250 Hz. ...​

As an aside, and if you've got some spare time, you might also be interested in this quite old (1964) article on Beesource "Sound Communication in Honeybees" http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/adrian-wenner/sound-communication-in-honey-bees/

 

[badger65]

Bees are now coming and going from the hive. All seems good. I will have a look at them on Thursday.