First sting of the year

[Antipodes]

And wearing it on your head?

No that's a new one to me. Just running around impersonating Popeye...

 

[Amari]

I got stung on my finger this year purely by accident trying to get one of my bees out of my car. Long story short it ended up between my fingers and stung me.
My finger had a bad reaction and I had to call the doctor and send him some images.
He gave me some antibiotics but also gave me some really strong antihistamines which you can only get on prescription and these worked instantly.
I will try to dig them out and post on here.

This was my finger about 6hours after the initial sting and it kept getting worse.

I discussed this

A local beek was also given antibiotics after a nasty sting earlier this year. At grave risk** of exceeding my brief (long retired medic) I cannot see the logic of prescribing an antibiotic. We're meant to be restricting their use for proven purposes. Ignorance/covering his back I suggest. What do you think Drex?
** Thankfully I'm no longer on the Medical Register so cannot be struck off!

I discussed this with my sister, a retired NHS microbiologist. We both agree that a bacterial infection would not cause that much swelling and redness after only six hours - it takes longer than that for bacteria to replicate and damage tissues. So, in our opinion prescribing an antibiotic within, say, 24 hours is inappropriate.

My personal opinion as a beek and medic is that an infected bee sting must be vanishingly rare and I doubt if antibiotics are ever indicated. I've never seen it or heard of it in 48 years of beekeeping and she's never seen a case in 35 years receiving samples for bacteriological culture in the laboratory.

A cautionary note: there has been recent publicity about increased morbidity and mortality due to bacterial sepsis. Bacteria are failing to respond to antibiotics due to bacterial mutations making them resistant to treatment. All the more reason to prescribe antibiotics wisely and so reduce resistance.

 

[North End Bees]

Just the finger, Brendan? Reason I ask is that swollen finger looks like pretty normal, localised reaction.

The swelling in the photo looks like a normal localised reaction. Don't forget, the bees give their life in defending their colony with a sting. That evolution would be pointless if the sting didn't produce a deterrent reaction.

 

[North End Bees]

A cautionary note: there has been recent publicity about increased morbidity and mortality due to bacterial sepsis. Bacteria are failing to respond to antibiotics due to bacterial mutations making them resistant to treatment. All the more reason to prescribe antibiotics wisely and so reduce resistance.

Hospitals are now using honey to treat infections that are resistant to antibiotics.
I'm sure we all have plenty of honey to hand!

 

[Amari]

Hospitals are now using honey to treat infections that are resistant to antibiotics.
I'm sure we all have plenty of honey to hand!

Don't mention Manuka...!

Honey and lemon is the NHS advice for simple cough!
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cough/

 

[Apple]

Don't mention Manuka...!
Germalene is the same stuff Shirley?

 

[BugsInABox]

I discussed this


I discussed this with my sister, a retired NHS microbiologist. We both agree that a bacterial infection would not cause that much swelling and redness after only six hours - it takes longer than that for bacteria to replicate and damage tissues. So, in our opinion prescribing an antibiotic within, say, 24 hours is inappropriate.

My personal opinion as a beek and medic is that an infected bee sting must be vanishingly rare and I doubt if antibiotics are ever indicated. I've never seen it or heard of it in 48 years of beekeeping and she's never seen a case in 35 years receiving samples for bacteriological culture in the laboratory.

A cautionary note: there has been recent publicity about increased morbidity and mortality due to bacterial sepsis. Bacteria are failing to respond to antibiotics due to bacterial mutations making them resistant to treatment. All the more reason to prescribe antibiotics wisely and so reduce resistance.

Though perhaps not unimaginable that bacteria might co-evolve to take advantage of a bees delivery mechanism.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201201144046.htm

 

[The Poot]

Though perhaps not unimaginable that bacteria might co-evolve to take advantage of a bees delivery mechanism.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201201144046.htm

Interesting reading. I smiled at the term “spider and healthcare specialists” - that wasn’t an option offered in career advice at my school!

 

[Amari]

Though perhaps not unimaginable that bacteria might co-evolve to take advantage of a bees delivery mechanism.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201201144046.htm

Interesting - thanks! I'll see if I can find any case reports in the medical literature.

 

[beeno]

Fake News Beeno ...

a) You are not 'Gassing' anything - the OA sublimates as an ultra fine powder which only kills the varroa.
b) Formic acid does not form with any proprietary sublimator
c) You would not do it when there are supers on the hives
d) Nobody would normally treat them 12 times - three times at 5 day intervals will get 90% of the mites through the brood cycles
e) How would the OA get dissolved in honey when done by sublimation any more than it would with your chosen method of trickling
f) I see little or no concern from the bees when they are treated with OA by sublimation and yet your bees - opened up, frames taken out and then drenched in OA dissolved in sugar syrup ends up with you getting stung and the bees clearly hating what you did to them.
g) Personal safety is easily taken care of with a full face mask with appropriate filters - the chances of ingesting it are remote if you follow the guidance.

I don't mind if you don't like and don't want to use OA by sublimation - feel free to keep going with your antiquated and disruptive method ... but let's stick to the facts and not spread rubbish about.

Don't be so Trumpian when someone disagrees with you particularly as an ex moderator of the forum.
a) Sublimation is the process in which a solid transforms into a gas phase without first melting to form a liquid phase. The clue is in the fact that the equipment is called a vaporizer. The gas fills every nook and cranny of the hive leaving a fine layer of oa crystals on everything including the bees setae. There is a picture of it on the net which I have not managed to find again.
b) According to scientificbeekeeping, if the vaporizer is not sublimating at the correct temperature then you get formic acid as well.
c) All nectar and some honey is transferred via the brood box into the supers, so it should not be used during the foraging season regardless of whether the supers are on or not as the crystals dissolve in the nectar/honey.
d) Some do and it doesn't always.
e) Repeated application when not broodless.
f) The hive is closed, so how can you see the bees? They have to spend time clearing out the oa crystals with their mandibles, so ends up same method as other treatments.
g) Not that easy, many a beekeeper carry out the process in less than perfect safety conditions. If you breath the fumes in you ingest it.
Rose tinted spectacles me thinks.

 

[beeno]

I copied this from the BMJ site "ABC of allergies": "Bee and wasp venoms are different, each containing distinct major allergens, which are well defined. Phospholipase A2 and mellitin occur only in bee venom, and antigen 5 only in wasp venom, but both venoms contain hyaluronidases. Patients allergic to wasp venom are rarely allergic to bee venom." I can't see why these toxins would be particularly susceptible to pH

Would be interested to know what antigen 5 is then if you got it on hand or I do it myself at some point.

 

[beeno]

Heard of a few incidences lately where infection rather than a systemic reaction was the problem

I remember years ago (probably 1996) when, after getting stung by (probably a wasp) on the wrist one afternoon. The following day I was working a RHIB in Swansea Bay and when I removed the drysuit that afternoon my hand ended up like the old Kenny Everett comedy hands.
Popped in to see the old Doc (old Dr Powell would have been 97 now if he'd lived - missed the funeral as I was flying out to Lesotho that day) and sent back home pumped full of antihistamines and antibiotics come think of it

My husband got a localised infection last sting, but it did clear up with Ibuprofen.

 

[beeno]

Same here drex, weather forecasted (S/E area) from 16th - 20th appears to be a 3 or 4c higher after next couple of weeks before getting a bit colder again. Though one can't trust the forecast just a case of keeping an eye on the ball.

Our assoc has one member who plans on doing a ratniek's, she is planning on disrupting the colony to uncap any brood before vaping, really !!!
Let's hope she doesn't have an issue as Beeno has.

Well, it had to happen sooner or later that I would get another bee sting - goes with the territory so to speak. As it happened I was very pleased by my very speedy "recovery" as the swelling usually takes 3 days to go down and I thought I share my medication for the benefit of other beekeepers.

 

[beeno]

This is the suit I have. The best feature is the way the veil is off the face. Scroll down to see the second photo- showing side on view.

https://www.ceracell.co.nz/full-bee-suit-with-zip-on-hood/

So, are you saying that if you were looking up to collect a swarm the veil and hat would not slide backwards?

 

[beeno]

This is what the doctor gave me to use in the future, one tablet a day.

Finger looks bad and the tablets the doctor gave you were antihistamines.

 

[Monbees]

Finger looks bad and the tablets the doctor gave you were antihistamines.

You sleepless too Beeno? ...

 

[Antipodes]

So, are you saying that if you were looking up to collect a swarm the veil and hat would not slide backwards?

It's absolutely fantastic in that respect. There is no hat with the suit or required with the suit and the veil area stays where it is. It's got a viewing "window" mesh in the upper quadrant (visible on the side view in the second photo in particular). Your head is free to move around. It is a tight, high thread count fabric, as tough as they come...warmer than the average suit so excellent for British and Tasmanian conditions.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't be so Trumpian when someone disagrees with you particularly as an ex moderator of the forum.

When did that happen?

 

[Brendan14]

Finger looks bad and the tablets the doctor gave you were antihistamines.

Yes was well aware of that but they are better than the off the shelf type ones apparently.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

particularly as an ex moderator of the forum.

When did that happen?

Fake news 'methinks'