First of the Winter losses

[JohnRoss]

Hi All,

I opened the hives yesterday to trickle the oxcalic acid and found one of my hives to be empty. A few dozen dead bees but not enough to account for a dead colony.

The colony buzzed back when I gave it a knock just before christmas so I assume they were there then. There are still plenty of stores, so I know they didn't starve. Brood box still weighs about 30 lb was also a super underneath. I have two questions,

1. any idea what happened to them,
2. What to do with the combs from the broodbox and super. I didn't treat for varroah in the autumn and didn't feed any sugar syrup so what is there is honey. Are these frames ok to keep for another hive or is the risk of disease too high?

 

[Ely]

Hi All,

I opened the hives yesterday to trickle the oxcalic acid and found one of my hives to be empty. A few dozen dead bees but not enough to account for a dead colony.

The colony buzzed back when I gave it a knock just before christmas so I assume they were there then. There are still plenty of stores, so I know they didn't starve. Brood box still weighs about 30 lb was also a super underneath. I have two questions,

1. any idea what happened to them,
2. What to do with the combs from the broodbox and super. I didn't treat for varroah in the autumn and didn't feed any sugar syrup so what is there is honey. Are these frames ok to keep for another hive or is the risk of disease too high?

Possible varroa problem when they were trying to raise their winter bees in Autumn. You can't rely on Oxalic alone. Shame. Sorry for your loss

 

[pargyle]

Hi All,

The colony buzzed back when I gave it a knock just before christmas so I assume they were there then. There are still plenty of stores, so I know they didn't starve. Brood box still weighs about 30 lb was also a super underneath. I have two questions,

" 16th December -I checked my hives yesterday morning, Very cold about 3 degC. We have had nearly tow weeks of nightly heavy frosts. Just a quick heft, all extremely heavy, a quick tap in the side, silence from every hive, not a murmur. Looking across the OMF there were a few dead bees, not many. They are all on double brood. To be honest I am not worried, I assume they are OK. I remember from last year that in very cold weather the bees did not respond to a tap on the side of the box. "

Did you check them again then after this ?

No bees left in the hive at all apart from a few dead ones and plenty of stores ..... what date did you last actually SEE this colony ?

 

[richardbees]

Is it possible the colony went Q- in late Autumn and the 'buzz back' came from the few remaining bees - which have recently died from the cold weather?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My thoughts as well - colony just dwindled, until it gets too small undertaker bees will still clear out the dead. Q- or nosemic - who knows

 

[JohnRoss]

Pargyle,

Got the buzz, and observed bees entering and exiting about a week after that comment. Weather was slightly warmer,

This colony was actually two that I united before taking to the heather. Returned from the heather in the first week in September. left a super of heather honey with them, underneath the brood box. Last I checked was during the last week in October, saw the queen, BIAS and lots and lots of bees. I would be surprised that a large colony could dwindle so rapidly.

One factor may be that this colony is my only one that was not on a proper hive stand. It was on a small crate propped up with bricks, only about 8" off the ground, every other hive is on a stand 18" from the ground. This may have caused dampness issues. I noticed the wood on the frames and the pollen were going moldy.

Like others above I suspect varroah as the culperate.

Any suggestions on what to do with the frames full of crystallized honey? are they still fit for consumption by man or bee?

 

[enrico]

I would say they were fit for both but then I have no idea what killed your bees. I would extract any that is runny enough to do so and keep the rest for spring feed. But that's me! Others will say until you know what killed them the risk is too great!
E

 

[pargyle]

Pargyle,

One factor may be that this colony is my only one that was not on a proper hive stand. It was on a small crate propped up with bricks, only about 8" off the ground, every other hive is on a stand 18" from the ground. This may have caused dampness issues. I noticed the wood on the frames and the pollen were going moldy.

Like others above I suspect varroah as the culperate.

Any suggestions on what to do with the frames full of crystallized honey? are they still fit for consumption by man or bee?

I'm not convinced it's varroa ... more likely Nosema or as others above suggest a queenless colony dwindling. Is there any signs of faeces on the frames (brownish yellow streaks) - it might be worth sending the few dead bees off for testing for Nosema or perhaps someone local to you can do it ?

I wouldn't risk doing anything with the frames until you know it's not Nosema of one sort or the other as the spores remaining, if it is, could infect another colony. Best to seal the hive up as well if you are leaving it in your apiary as the others will be robbing it as soon as it gets warm enough for them to fly regularly.

Lastly .. what's your hive configuration - Open mesh floor ? Crownboard - has it a feeder hole that you left open or, god forbid, matchsticks propping it open ? Any insulation ?

Colonies do die out ... occasionally with no apparent reason but there is usually something that has caused it. Were there any signs of brood left behind on the frames (obviously dead now) or brood disease ?

Need to look a bit further ...

 

[mbc]

Pick out any remaining capped brood and have a gander, pound to a pinch of **** you'll see deformed bees and possibly even some varroa if you look closely, your description sound to me like classic symptoms of rapid varroa collapse.

 

[JohnRoss]

Open mesh floor, Single brood box with a super underneath. Crown board on with bee escapes fitted, no match sticks. In terms of insulation I had a sheet of 1/4" polystyrene covering about 3/4 of the area of the crown board. No match sticks fitted.

I have removed the entire hive from the apiary and have it in the garage. In terms of remaining brood there is almost none. A few dozen sealed cells mostly near the edges of the brood area, near the stores and pollen. Center of all frames is totally clear of brood. I will get a chance to have a good look this evening.

 

[beeno]

QUOTE=mbc;457829]Pick out any remaining capped brood and have a gander, pound to a pinch of **** you'll see deformed bees and possibly even some varroa if you look closely, your description sound to me like classic symptoms of rapid varroa collapse.[/QUOTE]


Been a bad year for varroa. Sorry, you lots them especially since it was such a strong colony. When the bees die the hive becomes damp and mouldy.

 

[Finman]

QUOTE=mbc;457829]your description sound to me like classic symptoms of rapid varroa collapse.

It goes often that way. Varroa kills brood and old bees die. Then the hive is empty. Not even dead bees on floor. Some capped brood in combs.

 

[pargyle]

QUOTE=mbc;457829]Pick out any remaining capped brood and have a gander, pound to a pinch of **** you'll see deformed bees and possibly even some varroa if you look closely, your description sound to me like classic symptoms of rapid varroa collapse.

Been a bad year for varroa. Sorry, you lots them especially since it was such a strong colony. When the bees die the hive becomes damp and mouldy.[/QUOTE]

BUT ... colonies do not usually collapse from the results of Varroa over winter - it's normally at the end of the season - August or September when the mites in the brood and phoretic mites reach their peak. There would also be physical signs of the infestation - DWV and a reducing colony size. There would also probably be mites visible on the bees - more than one on many bees. The OP would have, surely, noticed the symptoms associated with an infestation of the level necessary to cause a colony to die out.

And ... it's the diseases that are vectored by varroa that weaken and can kill the colony - not the presence of the mite itself.

http://www.-------------/local/sgbka/bm~doc/harmful-effects-of-varroa-2.pdf

Ahhh ... it's a pity but the link has fallen foul of the other websites policy. It's on the BBKA site and it's one of the better documents available there ...

Mind you -- finding it on their site is like looking for a needle in a haystack ... rubbish search function. If you want to find it then Google 'Harmful effects of Varroa' and it should come out at the top of the list.

 

[wessexmario]

Crown board on with bee escapes fitted,

How much top ventilation would 2 bee escapes give?
Enough for convection heat losses to chill the brood and cluster on a cold night?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not if there's a sheet of polystyrene on top of it. Pointless leaving the porter escapes in though - will get totally clarted up with propolis and be even less use than they are usually.

 

[Swarm]

How much top ventilation would 2 bee escapes give?
Enough for convection heat losses to chill the brood and cluster on a cold night?

Not enough to chill the brood or cluster, plenty of beekeepers use the standard two hole porter boards as crownboards, with holes open all year.

 

[mintmoth]

http://www.-------------/local/sgbka/bm~doc/harmful-effects-of-varroa-2.pdf

Ahhh ... it's a pity but the link has fallen foul of the other websites policy. It's on the BBKA site and it's one of the better documents available there ...

Just go to the BBKA homepage and tack

/local/sgbka/bm~doc/harmful-effects-of-varroa-2.pdf

onto the end of the address in the address bar.

 

[drex]

Not enough to chill the brood or cluster, plenty of beekeepers use the standard two hole porter boards as crownboards, with holes open all year.

Saves on matchsticks then!

 

[richardbees]

plenty of beekeepers use the standard two hole porter boards as crownboards, with holes open all year.

Swarm

No they don't!

It's standard practice to cover the feed holes when not used for feeding - or for Porter bee escape.

richard

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

plenty of beekeepers use the standard two hole porter boards as crownboards, with holes open all year.

Swarm

No they don't!

It's standard practice to cover the feed holes

You'll find a lot of beekeepers still live in the dark ages and think standard practice is to leave them uncovered (including our local SBI)