Finding a second queen

[Dusty Rhodes]

Sorry, guys, if I'm posing a question answered before, but my searches on the Forum have been fruitless.

I had an unmarked DLQ in one hive and a virgin queen in a Demaree on the next hive (both on 14x12). By the time the VQ was laying, there was no sign of the DLQ - and I certainly couldn't see her. I decided they'd done for her.

I united the two, using the paper method, with the BB with the new queen on top. (I wouldn't have wished it that way, but weight, space etc made it inevitable). The uniting seemed fine - and after a week, I put a QE between the two BBs, to keep the queen out of the lower box, till the old brood was hatched.

Since then, the hive has turned angry - which I cannot afford as the hive is closer to our house and neighbour's, than is desirable. So, I've decided to requeen. But, lo and behold! on inspection, and desiring to remove the lower box after the brood hatched, there are signs that the DLQ might not have been dispatched after all. A small number of larvae and capped drone brood have appeared in the bottom box. I still couldn't find a second queen - and I guess there could be a laying worker there - but the hive was so ill-tempered, I didn't want to stay in too long.

Clearly, I can't risk introducing one of Hivemaker's best Buckfast queens, to a hive with a rogue DLQ around. But how can I find her? (The other queen is marked, and no problem to find and dispatch.)

Your wisdom, please.



Dusty.

 

[Hawklord]

If the queens have remained separated they are probably too big to go through a queen excluder. I'd try removing the lower box and put the upper box with queen excluder below on the floor. Then shake the lower box out on to a swarm board. Hopefully you will end up with the DLQ trapped between the floor and queen excluder.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

You don't say whether the new queen is still laying in the hive and for how long. Is it her brood that's emerging now?

 

[Travelator]

Just how small is the "small number of larvae and capped drone brood" in the lower box?

If it's only a few dozen then laying workers seems a plausible explanation, but hundreds or thousands would definitely suggest a DLQ.

 

[itma]

Just how small is the "small number of larvae and capped drone brood" in the lower box?

If it's only a few dozen then laying workers seems a plausible explanation, but hundreds or thousands would definitely suggest a DLQ.

Brood pattern (or its absence) is the best guide to the DLQ/Laying Workers question.


For finding Q in a 'tetchy' hive, move the hive a few yards away and provide a box of some sort (their supers?) in the original position to collect the fliers.
After half an hour or so, most of the fliers will have left and the remaining younger bees will be much less aggressive. Fewer, easier bees makes Q finding rather more pleasant.

 

[Michael Palmer]

You could make a shaker box………