Feral Bees- Catherine Thompson

[Finman]

Do you think the government should give us a grant to convert our wooden hives to poly, e:

Why they would do that when you do not even try to be profitable in your beekeeping.

Governement gove 6 million pound to reseach beekeeping. Where is the money now?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Governement gove 6 million pound to reseach beekeeping. Where is the money now?

Not in the beekeepers pockets that's for sure

 

[Bob Bee]

Not in the beekeepers pockets that's for sure

A friend was speaking in Cornwall recently and when we discussed the possibilities of grants for bee improvement he used the phrase "we've been Fera'd" which refers to the way in which money that could usefully go to practicing beekeepers to achieve something useful, seems to get siphoned off into government departments, achieving , well, not very much......

 

[Finman]

.
So this forum become mad because somebody had noticed that varroa kills feral colonies.

What went wrong? Knowledge adds pain?
.

 

[Bob Bee]

No, this forum was already mad....... which is one of the reasons I stay

 

[REDWOOD]

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate but some arguments have two sides but some have no endings

 

[pargyle]

Oh, and if the article were true, that every time you used a styrofoam container for hot food you got a dose of carcinogens they would have been banned long long ago. Its yet more anti everything campaigning tripe.

The rules about food containers are very severe, they even banned the flowedin material in the caps of jars not so long ago and it had to be changed for another compound because the original one released tiny traces of semicarbazide into the product, and semicarbazide has since (after a campaign scare to the contrary) been shown to be pretty well harmless.

The reckless disposal of used poly based materials and them floating about for generations is another matter altogether, but that is because we are a truly messy lot and its those dumping it that need dealing with rather than the material itself.

The carbon footprint of a poly hive over its lifespan is going to be negligible. The bees in them produce more honey and eat less bought in sugar, plus the colonies die less frequently.

I actually agree with this ITLD ... unusual I know ... but what you are saying is entirely correct. I have no issue with poly hives, they, clearly, work; they last an inordinate time and the bees obviously seem to like them. I use polystyrene sheets for insulation in my TBH's (albeit encapsulated between two sheets of reclaimed timber) and as far as I can tell this sort of use has a pretty small carbon footprint.

I would like to see the use of polystyrene as food containers reduced or eliminated as I agree with you that we are a messy lot and they just end up polluting the countryside or adding to the land fill problem. Recyclable carboard is a much more environmentally safe food container but, again, it's all about cost/profit - polystyrene is much cheaper to produce and easier for the retail/consumer offering.

There's no hypocrisy in my point of view ... I've frequently said on here that I'm a pragmatist and occasionally things that may be considered bad for the planet have to be tolerated in the absence of a viable alternative. In insulation terms polystyrene as a long term insulating medium on a cost/effectiveness ratio is about as good as it gets .... use in this fashion has virtually no impact on planet health. The issue I have is with the 'single use - immediate disposal' elements that it is used for ... where there is a clear viable alternative. I remain concerned about the potential carcinogenic properties of this material but it's not something that is arbitrarily inflicted upon me and my family and I can avoid it if I wish.

 

[Ely]

My problem is that I love the look, smell and feel of wood. Not just hives but with everything. Wood has some sort of special charm. I'll probably be buying poly though out of practicality and cost effectiveness (if you don't build your own hives).

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[REDWOOD]

I love the look, smell and feel of wood.
Don't know if counselling is available for this

 

[pargyle]

I love the look, smell and feel of wood.
Don't know if counselling is available for this

No ... but he could join woodwombles ... we just go around picking up and keeping bits of wood that may come in useful 'one day' ! No formal membership as the affliction is incurable ... just a mutual help society ...

I found an outlet for my affliction by making more beehives and turning the more lumpy bits on my lathe into fairly useless, but decorative, items which then clutter up the house rather than my workshop !

 

[mbc]

Why they would do that when you do not even try to be profitable in your beekeeping.

Governement gove 6 million pound to reseach beekeeping. Where is the money now?

Finman, this is a quote from a post of yours I recently revisited from this time last year :

"In most countries bee breeding is a key to get healty productive hives. Not shaking hives with closed eys."

which, along with the largely squandered money mentioned above, highlights what I find most frustrating about our backwards approach to beekeeping in this country.

 

[Ely]

I love the look, smell and feel of wood.
Don't know if counselling is available for this

They're leaving this problem til last

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[Ely]

No ... but he could join woodwombles ... we just go around picking up and keeping bits of wood that may come in useful 'one day' ! No formal membership as the affliction is incurable ... just a mutual help society ...

I found an outlet for my affliction by making more beehives and turning the more lumpy bits on my lathe into fairly useless, but decorative, items which then clutter up the house rather than my workshop !

I have a barn full of wood fram a dismantled wooden out building that used to be a bar. You would get wood looking at all my wood

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[madasafish]

Finman, this is a quote from a post of yours I recently revisited from this time last year :

"In most countries bee breeding is a key to get healty productive hives. Not shaking hives with closed eys."

which, along with the largely squandered money mentioned above, highlights what I find most frustrating about our backwards approach to beekeeping in this country.

When I started Beekeeping I was amazed to find a cottage industry with no real leadership , planning or any attempt to lay down standards.

See imported bees.

Not that I really care.

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

I have kept an eye on two lots of Bees at Derriford Hospital in the wall cavities since 2007 they seem to be doing ok as to know if there feral or not its hard to tell. We did have a large nest in an old dead Oak but there was no sign last year.

 

[pargyle]

Has anyone heard new information on Catherine Thompsons study of feral bee colonies. Verbally it would seem that of a study of her feral colonies suggests that none survive more than 3 years. This suggests that beekeepers are indeed entirely maintaining the population of bees in the uk and that, untreated for varroa, bees will simply not survive for longer that 2-3 years, whether feral or in hives.
Are these statements supported by other research (readable to laymen).

I have heard from Catherine Thompson and she has confirmed that her thesis is not quite ready for release - it is hoped that the thesis will yield four main papers that will be of interest to both beekeepers and academics. No doubt there will be some considerable interest once the research can be made public.

 

[Ross]

I was at her talk to BIPCo and to clarify some of her points, the colonies which she surveyed were all reported "feral" colonies that had been in existance for years. She specifically requested beekeepers informed her of colonies that had aparently been in existance continually for a very long time. The anecdotal colonies "there has been a colony of bees in that tree/church/chimney as long as I can remember" etc.

Very simply from DNA analysis of the bees, her results showed that the bees in that ferral colony died out and were replaced by a new swarm over the 3 year period, they did not supercede and continue as the origianal colony. That was true of all 30 "perpetual" feral colonies, none of them survived the 3 years.

She also found that the disease loading of the feral colonies was about the same as the managed colonies in the same area. Therefore feral colonies do not pose an undue disease risk.

I would have thought that the life cycle of a perpetual colony would be along the lines of, swarm arrives in the cavity already filled with comb, it rapidly expands, lives for a couple of years, then dies, the comb is robbed by neighbouring colonies (thus it seems to still be in use), and then picks up another swarm.

 

[Finman]

I was at her talk to BIPCo and to clarify some of her points, ...and then picks up another swarm.

That makes all sense. And she mave made quite much work to make ensure why "the ferals are for years".

 

[Finman]

I have heard from Catherine Thompson and she has confirmed that her thesis is .

However, she have found the same which have seen for years oby professionals

If professional is going to earn his living, he cannot live feet above clouds.

- no colony has lived over 3 years; that is remarkable finding.
- in another Scottish research it revieled that when colony has 2000 mites, winter dead outs will appear.

This tells that varroa is dangerous pal. It is wast of time to count them.


In USA it was found long time ago that varroa killed the colonies where feral hives used to live. Then Africanized colonies occupied the tree trunks. They stand better varroa.

.

 

[Ross]

As for polystyrene to challenge a few of the points raised earlier, the blowing gas for polystrene is not a CFC these were banned years ago. It is now blown using pentane.

Lemon tea does dissolve polystyrene, the lemon oil (which is an organic solvent, in the chemical sense of the words) dissolves out of the rind and melts the polystrene. This isn't a problem unless your bees drink lemon tea. Tolulene does dissolve polystyrene, it also cleans engines very effectively, so while it would melt a poly hive if you poured it over the top, it would also clean the diesel and old engine oil off the naturally preserved old wooden hives still in use.

The results for food contact testing of polystyrene and the transfer of sytrene monomer all show that the rate of transfer is dependent on the temperature of the foodstuff and the fat content. This again should not be a problem in a beehive, unless the bees like to eat burgers. Polystrene is approved for food contact use in the EU and US.

Styrene is a naturally occurring substance, it is naturally present in a whole range of foods from coffee to strawberries and is therefore regularly eaten by us, all the time and will obviously be present in tissue samples.

Polystrene is completely recyclable and to recycle it uses less energy and water to recycle than paper or cardboard, the problem is local authorities do not usually offer a kerbside recycling facility making it inconvenient for the public to recycle. However, some authorities have now started to offer polystyrene recycling.

If it does end up in landfill, the fact that it doesn't biodegrade is a huge advantage. Bio degradation in landfill produces landfill gas which is hugely polluting and contaminants leach out into groundwater, this doesn't occur from polysytrene.

If it is incinerated in an energy from waste plant it has a higher energy density than coal and make the plant more efficient and it burns cleanly producing only CO2 water and a trace of ash.

I also have a major issue with single use polystyrene cartons not being recycled (particularly if they end up in the sea), but then I also have an issue with the apple juice cartons I use every day not being recycled. Both are completely recyclable, but my local authority won't recycle them, so they end up in landfill which puts my council tax up.

A beehive is not a single use item and will last for years, the bees do much better in them, and use over the lifetime of the beehive much less sugar which is pretty energy intensive to produce.

Ross