Feeding Water in the Winter?

[TooBee...]

I was reading through this article
https://poly-hive.co.uk/recourses/m...intering/brood-rearing-in-the-winter-cluster/

And I focused in on this paragraph,

"Our numerous experiments with ‘super colonies’-and the one in the weighing hut had shown, that when there are too many bees in a hive, or when the hive is too insulated and too warm for a mild climate, thirst-crazy bees were driven out to fly at the slightest excuse; not to gambol in the sunshine, but to collect water. But, coming from the warmth with out having contributed towards its maintenance, they quickly chilled before reaching it."

(Putting aside the issue of Super Colonies and Over-Insulated Hives...)

It got me thinking: for the bees to leave the hive for water, during cooler months is potentially risky for them, many (myself included) beeks are already seeing large amounts of crystallized honey in our frames (winter stores from Ivy) and naturally the bees will need some water to see them over the winter... but in a wild (tree cavity) hive wouldn't water be more easily accessible, maybe at the entrance???

Which made me think, does anyone here add an small entrance feeder with water instead of syrup to their hive during the winter, naturally it would have to be wrapped in insulation to reduce extreme temp. changes, ... but at least it would be a source of winter water for the bees?

Does anyone know of any experiments in this area?

 

[Finman]

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Bees do not need water in winter. Our bees stay in cluster 5-6 months. They cannot pick water from outside.

They cannot suck condensation water from walls because hive interior is too cold to move away from cluster. When it is cleansing flight, bees cannot take water from snow.

To rear workers in winter in Scotland is not a good idea. Do not encourage to that if somebody does.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No

 

[Poly Hive]

Just a note to express my delight that you have found and read what Mobus had to say and Jeffree is well worth reading too as he did the "super colony" research.

PH

 

[Finman]

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What kind of apparatus is "super colony"?

But winter rest is winter rest. IT is no reason to activate them then.

 

[TooBee...]

Yes, I understand the bees are supposed to be 'resting' in winter, but...
I have spoken to numerous beeks from last year and they had multiple hives that died or became extremely weak from Isolation Starvation, they were surrounded by crystallized Ivy Honey, and this year many of us are seeing a solid block across at least 5 frames of this Ivy Honey starting to crystallize hard already, ... surely the bees need (extra) water to be able to consume this, ALSO don't they need water to be able to consume the Fondant. Many beeks in the USA suggest putting granulated sugar ontop of the frames (a sheet of newspaper has been placed down first), again wouldn't the bees need extra water to be able to use this. Therefore by adding a small but steady supply of water for them just inside the hive entrance would prevent them from having to venture out into the cold air during late winter? But not contribute to increased humidity in the hive...

 

[Finman]

Yes, I understand the bees are supposed to be 'resting' in winter, but...
I have spoken to numerous beeks from last year and they had multiple hives that died or became extremely weak from Isolation Starvation, they were surrounded by crystallized Ivy Honey, and this year many of us are seeing a solid block across at least 5 frames of this Ivy Honey starting to crystallize hard already, ... surely the bees need (extra) water to be able to consume this, ALSO don't they need water to be able to consume the Fondant. Many beeks in the USA suggest putting granulated sugar ontop of the frames (a sheet of newspaper has been placed down first), again wouldn't the bees need extra water to be able to use this. Therefore by adding a small but steady supply of water for them just inside the hive entrance would prevent them from having to venture out into the cold air during late winter? But not contribute to increased humidity in the hive...

You just do it then, if you feel so.

You mix many different things above in the text.

To rear brood in winter is enough stupid habit. It will not succeed. The hive will be in bad condition in spring, when they start to collect pollen from nature.


And that American style to put a heap of sugar on frames is ridiculous. They deminish condensation, they say. Wiser guys put enough insulation on the loft.

Isolated hive deaths? ... You shoud move brood frames to lower box before you feed for winter.
.

 

[Poly Hive]

The answer to isolation starvation is not water but fondant.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

To rear brood in winter is enough stupid habit. It will not succeed. The hive will be in bad condition in spring, when they start to collect pollen from nature.
.

They must be stupid then, because that is exactly what they do here, and succeed, and are in good condition in spring.

 

[Finman]

They must be stupid then, because that is exactly what they do here, and succeed, and are in good condition in spring.

You gave told how bees get pollen from nature in January. Surely they get water from nature too.
But do it, if it is fine.

 

[Hivemaker.]

You gave told how bees get pollen from nature in January.

They get pollen all year round here.

 

[oliver90owner]

Forget “thirst crazy’ bees. They are not.

They require the water to feed larvae. Nothing more.

Honey - whether mixed floral, ivy, OSR, or anything else will have a water content of, say, 15%-21%. Fondant is only about 12%. Bees will survive quite happily on either, for the whole winter.

But they cannot rear larvae without using the water in their stores unless collected from outside. Water is, therefore an important element (compound, really) when brooding is accelerated in the spring. Plenty of pollen available, but no nectar.

One reason why 1:1 sugar solution is fed in spring if one wants the bees to be ready for an early OSR crop.

Actually an entrance feeder, perhaps with a dash of sugar, but containing mostly water is perfectly adequate and gets used by the bees. That avoids losing bees in cold weather. That is why bees like a warm water supply (dark coloured, so that it readily absorbs sunlight energy, or sewers,drains etc where the water is warmed by bacterial action as well).

Do try to keep things simple. Bees do.

 

[Finman]

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When bees eate sugar, they generate water in their body 70% out of original sugar weight. Most weight comes from Air, when oxygen joins to hydrogen. Bees breathe out carbon diokside and water wapour in the cluster.

2H + O = H2O

When bees eate in a winter month 1 kg sugar, they make 0.7 kg water.

I do not know, how bees survive in winter 5 months without drinking, but they do very well.
In the moist hive they do not do so well as in dry hive.

 

[TooBee...]

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When bees eate in a winter month 1 kg sugar, they make 0.7 kg water.

Where does the "0.7 kg water" come from, the Sugar will not have any (unless it has absorbed it from the air) and 1 kg of honey, when uncapped, will have only 0.2 kg of water, I know that honey absorbs water from the air in the hive, is this one method that the bees (inadvertently) use to reduce the humidity in the hive during winter?
My bees are still rearing brood (aleit not much) and I saw them out in the sun this morning collect dew of the grass - it was freezing cold! Also I've been told that sugar or solid Ivy honey will not absorb water, meaning the bees must have actual water to add to it, for them to be able to eat, presumably through flying to the nearest water source.

 

[Finman]

0.7 kg water comes, when you or a beehive burn 1 kg sugar in tissues.
Called sugar metabolism. As Crebs Cycle too.

Energy of Sugar has been used as an energy, and oxygen has added into process.

In controversial process in photosynthesis water is splitted to oxygen and hydrogen ion. Energy of the sun has stores as a sugar molecule.
.

 

[Finman]

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But our bees cannot live over winter with fondant because they need drinking water to dilute it.

That 0.7 litre is tissue water and bees cannot dilute sugar with it.
.
Fructose catches moisture from the hive air. That I use in pollen patty to keep it moist inside the hive.

 

[drex]

When metabolised sugar breaks down to water, carbon dioxide + energy. The energy and water are used by the bee and carbon dioxide exhaled. As Finman says the water is in the bees tissues and not available as free water. However the exhaled air from the bees will be moist air, which will condense on cold parts of the hive, giving water for bees to drink ( assuming they break cluster)

 

[Finman]

When metabolised sugar breaks down to water, carbon dioxide + energy. The energy and water are used by the bee and carbon dioxide exhaled

Yes, basic biology in the school, but seldom noticed as a water source of wintering bee .

Bees cannot lick condensed water from walls in a cold hive box. That is offered often as a water source.
.

.

 

[Poly Hive]

Tight clustering is really only seen in timber units now. I have lifted off crownboards at minus 5 temps and there is no cluster as such in poly.

PH

 

[MuswellMetro]

Tight clustering is really only seen in timber units now. I have lifted off crownboards at minus 5 temps and there is no cluster as such in poly.

PH

agree, we show our beginners cluster through glass quilt on their first January lecture...most insulated hives and all poly hives are open clustered even at 5c........and the guard bees rev up to 27c and flight out and attack