Everbuild Resintite Wood Glue

[charlievictorbravo]

Hedgerow Pete says on his videos that he uses this glue on his woodwork and I bought some to make some hives but I'm having trouble with the setting time of the mixed material. The instructions on the tubs say mix 3.5 of powder to 1 of water. I have done this very accurately but the stuff starts to go off after 15 - 20 minutes, whereas the instructions say it should be good for 3 hours.

Has anybody used this stuff and do you have similar issues with setting time.

Also, does a queen excluder need a frame to provide bee space, either above or below - I suspect it does but I cannot find anything definitive - lots of QEs are sold with no frame so no help there.

Thanks

 

[TBRNoTB]

Hedgerow Pete says on his videos that he uses this glue on his woodwork and I bought some to make some hives but I'm having trouble with the setting time of the mixed material. The instructions on the tubs say mix 3.5 of powder to 1 of water. I have done this very accurately but the stuff starts to go off after 15 - 20 minutes, whereas the instructions say it should be good for 3 hours.

Has anybody used this stuff and do you have similar issues with setting time.

Also, does a queen excluder need a frame to provide bee space, either above or below - I suspect it does but I cannot find anything definitive - lots of QEs are sold with no frame so no help there.

Thanks

Re-think!

 

[simonrp]

Gorilla Glue, available from screwfix.
Yes, it is pricey but is easy to use and absolutely bomb proof.
It's the dark brown one you want.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Also, does a queen excluder need a frame to provide bee space, either above or below - I suspect it does but I cannot find anything definitive - lots of QEs are sold with no frame so no help there.

There are two kinds of QE, the flat sheet kind of perforated metal - these are so thin that they do not interfer with the bee space. But the better kind made of wire rods is thicker and would. So a beespace deep frame is added around it. Wether it goes above or under the mesh depends on whether you have top or bottom bee space hives.

IN bottom beespace, the frame would go under the mesh and allow thw bees to wander around on top th eframes before going through the QE.

If that makes sense.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Yes, thanks for that DAF. I had not realised the essential difference between the QEs with bars and those of pressed perforated metal. Without opening up a can of worms, why are the type with wire rods superior? As you will see from my profile, I'm a newbie and I don't have any hives but as I said in my post, I'm in the process of making one so all sorts of questions arise.

TBRNoTB - your "Re-think!" response may mean something to you but not to me - would you elaborate?

Simonrp - thanks for the advice about Screwfix wood glue but I've just spent a lot of cash on the Resintite and Hedgerow Pete swears by the stuff on his videos. I want to try to use the stuff I've got and was hoping for some advice about extending its working time.

 

[oliver90owner]

was hoping for some advice about extending its working time.

Work in a 'fridge?

Only make up enough for 20mins assembly time?

does a queen excluder need a frame to provide bee space

Bottom space - no; top space - depends on the type. The sheet type can sag and then you are in trouble.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have worked top bee space with no surrounds, and bottom with no surrounds.

I have used the rods with surrounds, and on top and bottom bee space.

Frankly and this is probably heresy, does it make any difference?

Not a jot.

Not an iota.

The bees manage just fine.

The ones with surrounds are stiffer and arguably easier to take off and on but is that worth the treble the price?

Discuss as I know my answer.

As for very expensive glues, a standard external woodworkers glue is all that is needed. Save your money for more important things.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Hedgerow Pete says on his videos that he uses this glue on his woodwork and I bought some to make some hives but I'm having trouble with the setting time of the mixed material. The instructions on the tubs say mix 3.5 of powder to 1 of water. I have done this very accurately but the stuff starts to go off after 15 - 20 minutes, whereas the instructions say it should be good for 3 hours.

Has anybody used this stuff and do you have similar issues with setting time.

Also, does a queen excluder need a frame to provide bee space, either above or below - I suspect it does but I cannot find anything definitive - lots of QEs are sold with no frame so no help there.

Thanks

I guess you just bought the glue? and from memory as it has been many years since I have used it and it had a good shelf life but do you know how old the powder is? If very old and perhaps been stored ever so slightly damp can effect setting.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Yes, thanks for that DAF. I had not realised the essential difference between the QEs with bars and those of pressed perforated metal. Without opening up a can of worms, why are the type with wire rods superior?

As you can see it is a matter of taste.

The framed/rod ones are supposed easier on the bees as they have no rough edges, they do not twist or distort with age and so accidently let the queen through, especially at supercedure time when the queen may be smaller. The framed ones tend to be easier to get off as you can lever them off with a hive tool and having in essence their own beespace, they are not stuck to the frames below/above. But you do in my experience get bits of comb stuck to them which is easy to clean off but messy.

The plastic or sheet metal ones are certainly cheaper but they do get stuck down and then are difficult to pull away from the tops of the frames. It is at this point that they sometimes deform and have to be thrown away. It is said that the rough metal edges of the metal ones tear the bees wings when they pass through especially as they get rougher with age, handling and brittleness of the metal. The plastic ones deform easily so you tend to throw them away more but they are 'warmer' than the steel ones (?!? Thor**s website)

Prices £4 plastic £7 steel £18 wire rod.

Of course you can run a hive without a QE but that is opening up a whole case of a can of worms!

 

[Poly Hive]

I should add when I had a number of the Waldron ones, the rods, some 40 odd, they were a half bee space! Both sides.... Never actually an issue more an oddity as the bees made little bits of wax to make ladders to get up and through and also down. So long as they were twisted off they were fine.

As for chucking out excluders... slown down here..... never had to dump one yet for distortion. who preaches this stuff?

The makers per chance or or old and "wise" dogmatic friends the BB**?

PH

 

[drstitson]

"£18 wire rod."

you can usually pick up the wire part only (unframed) at the Big T sales for a fraction of the cost. you can then either add a frame or use as is as per PH.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

As for chucking out excluders... slown down here..... never had to dump one yet for distortion. who preaches this stuff?

The makers per chance or or old and "wise" dogmatic friends the BB**?

PH

The BKKA of course. Never had one myself but have had ones twist and buckle and then get thrown away in disgust.

 

[alanf]

The instructions on the tubs say mix 3.5 of powder to 1 of water. I have done this very accurately but the stuff starts to go off after 15 - 20 minutes, whereas the instructions say it should be good for 3 hours.

Has anybody used this stuff and do you have similar issues with setting time.

The instructions on my tub say mixing by weight is preferred at 2 powder to 1 water. By volume is an alternative but volumes won't be as accurate because powder settles. 3 hours is optimistic although it is temperature affected. On a normal September day like today, in the high teens outside I'd mix enough to use within an hour or so. By that time it will have thickened but is still usable. Careful to mix evenly, powder to half the water, mix to paste then add the rest of the water. Lumps of powder start to cure faster and that curing spreads to the rest of the pot. You might get a little more time by using water from the fridge and sitting the pot on ice.

Use clean pots but anything that is used with the glue is throw away - empty food pots and poundshop "artists" brushes. Trying to clean up uses time while mixing a new batch in an already curing pot of glue will quickly cure the new batch. Time will always be limited, nuc boxes for example: assemble one or two with glue while still liquid and pin. While the glue is curing but still elastic drill pilot holes and screw to clamp the joints. If you want to use it to seal exposed edges of ply, you need a new batch you can use while it's still liquid.

As HP says, resin glues are cheap (8.50 for 1.5Kg dry at toolstation) set rock hard, waterproof and fill gaps without shrinking as much as the PVA based glues. You do have to adapt your working methods to these traditional glues; if you're not sure, Cascamite comes in smaller packages.

 

[Tom Bick]

It’s a great glue and very strong and in my time I have mixed buckets of it in the past for just about every application possible but I don’t want to alarm you all but you should know that it is a urea-formaldehyde based glue with a few health considerations to be taken into consideration. It can cause skin problems and I have known joiners not able to work with it without wearing gloves and a couple with respiratory problems.

It off gasses formaldehyde gas but don’t worry as your hives should cause no great health risk to you or the bees, it’s a similar formaldehyde glue used in plywoods, chipboards, blockboards and mdf known to be bad to all that work with it not only for the dust but in a lesser manor and more importantly for the amount of glue in its construction.

I have not used the glue for many years and have not had any for a similar time but would not be to bothered if I had a tub on the shelf.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Thanks to everybody for their informative responses. I think the answer to my main problem regarding Resintite glue lies in alanf's excellent post. I'm pretty sure I re-used a mixing vessel and a brush, which probably accounts for the early setting of the glue mix. In future I will mix powder and water by weight, use really cold water, use new mixing vessels and brushes and work with a 30 minute working time in mind.

I will also bear in mind Tom Bick's warning about exposure to formaldehyde gas.

I'm going to A Bit of A Do (Cornwall BKA event in Truro) later today and I'll ask lots of questions about queen excluders before I shell out hard cash.

Thanks everyone

 

[Arfermo]

I heard that the perforated sheet metal QEs tend to sag in the middle which induces brace comb etc and therefore favours the wire ones with a wood frame which don't sag. Some of my wire ones seem to have deeper recesses on one side than 'tother, presumably to allow for top or bottom spacing? Same with some crownboards which is handy when deep enough for Apiguard tray.

 

[itma]

I heard that the perforated sheet metal QEs tend to sag in the middle which induces brace comb etc and therefore favours the wire ones with a wood frame which don't sag. ...

The sheets might sag into top beespace, but sit on the top bars for bottom beespace - or rather on any scraps of prop and wax that you haven't rigorously cleaned off, causing them to bulge up into the beespace, inviting more wax and prop to stick the wretched thing to the frames above!

One technique I've admired for dealing with the metal sheets is to use one hand to hold the middle down somewhat, while peeling up from the edge. That hand on the middle allows the sheet to come up slowly, without springing and catapulting bees.

But the hobby beek should buy the rigid wire excluders in the sales, and then donate the sheets to anyone cheap enough to take them!

 

[Poly Hive]

There is a very easy way to work these "wretched things" LOL

You lift one edge and move it in the horizontal plane form side to side gently until it frees off.

It's not rocket science and they work perfectly well.

Operator error anyone?

PH