Epi pen for personal use only!

[greatbritishhoney]

GBH, according to my latest resuscitation update this week, you did exactly the right thing with the back slaps.I'm surprised you were advised not to do so.
Caza

I guess it was for a similar reason as Redpola has been told not to use the epipen - for fear that it could make things worse if done incorrectly.

It's a difficult ethical question, as doctors have to have a rule to apply in such situations. Sometimes the rule may be (or appear to be) incongruous to what the person is facing at the time.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Never heard of Mr Heimlich?

I was also told not to do this.

 

[MartinL]

Still a very different situation to administering an intrumuscular injection of adrenaline, which has the potential to kill quicker than a little bee sting!!!!

Diagnosis and the subsequent administering of dangerous drugs should be left to those who know exactly what they are doing.
Not those who have seen it performed on Casualty or ER! ! ! ! !

 

[Cazza]

Diagnosis and the subsequent administering of dangerous drugs should be left to those who know exactly what they are doing.
QUOTE]

Tell that to the Community Care Trust that sends me on an anaphylaxsis update every year. Tells me how to recognise AS and how to administer the Epipen. I'm no medic but the expectation is there that I will use the pen.
Cazza

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Martin, whilst I partially agree with you, your statement doesn't seem relevant in this case. Redpola has been prescribed the epipen and has been shown how to use it. There is no need to wait for a medic to turn up - that's the whole point of an epipen surely?

 

[MartinL]

Diagnosis and the subsequent administering of dangerous drugs should be left to those who know exactly what they are doing.
QUOTE]

Tell that to the Community Care Trust that sends me on an anaphylaxsis update every year. Tells me how to recognise AS and how to administer the Epipen. I'm no medic but the expectation is there that I will use the pen.
Cazza

So why would your not being a "medic", make you think that you are not one of the people who would know what you are doing?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Sorry Martin - I totally misread your post. You never mentioned needing a medic!

I think I'll go home and lie down now

 

[Phil280]

Hi all.

I had similar reactions to the ones in the pictures shown a few posts back. Funny thing was that it was intermittent. One day I could be stung by two or three bees and would only have the usual bump. On another day I could be stung once and come up with a systemic rash. However no other symptoms.

I was tested for the obvious, received antihistamines, cortisone tabs and an EpiPen. I am also in a desinsitisation program. It seems to be working. After a good year now I have taken no medication after the last few bee stings and have had no reaction.

I must state though that I know what I am doing and always had a person with me at the time - I would not advise anybody else to try experiments with their medication.
I would also not advise anybody to use an EpiPen on someone else unless you have the appropriate medical background.
I have however instructed my friends and family what to do if I do collapse...they will place the EpiPen in my hand and assist the administration if I am no longer fully able to do so myself.

Greets
Phil

 

[victor meldrew]

The instructions with the epipen point to it's use on a third party ( even though adrenaline may not be recommended ie certain heart patients) if the situation becomes a matter of life and death !
Don't let us repeat the Wigan scenario where 3 police personnel stood and watched a boy drown in 3' of water because they hadn't had the relevant training backed up by certification

VM

 

[rbaz]

Well here in France I have a pen for both adult and child (child’s dose is lower) prescribed by my doctor to me and my daughter. He knows I keep bees and no family member has any allergic reaction but prescribed them for the just incise incident. (Without giving me any instructions at all in fact he was on the phone to another patient when he wrote the prescription)
Now I am no fool and using the pen is a last resort. I would be on the phone to emergency services or well on the way to hospital before even thinking of using it but hospital could be nearly an hour away from me by ambulance so I would rather have it than not.

 

[rae]

The instructions with the epipen point to it's use on a third party ( even though adrenaline may not be recommended ie certain heart patients) if the situation becomes a matter of life and death !

My cousin is allergic to nuts, and her mother carries a pen, just in case. No doubt if there was a reaction, she would stick it in her daughter, just like the doctor told her to. When she comes to stay, the pen stays with her, and we have instructions to stick her with it, just like the doctor said.

Neither of us are allergic to stings (I do get quite a reaction from stings to the head though), but if I had a pen and knew how to use it, I wouldn't hesitate to stick it in mrs rae should the need arise. Clearly, I know what she is allergic to (nothing) and what drugs she is taking (none).

 

[jezd]

"I must NOT NOT EVER EVER use an epipen on anyone else. In any circumstances. Ever.

This seemed a little harsh to me as if, ......"

So, now you understand why they're reluctant to give them out.

It's because we have wannabee Florence Nightingale saviours who, pen in hand, the words NEVER, EVER ... ringing in their ears and just leaving the surgery, are wondering who else they can stick it into and be a hero for the day.

So, all you have to do is work out, by diligent research, whether:

the risk of your girlfriend dying from what you THINK might be anaphylactic shock before getting to hospital or medical help

IS greater than

her dying from YOU injecting her with something you have been told to NEVER, EVER use on anyone else......

It does say on the side of the epipen:

NOT for num-nuts

I had worse reaction than pics 25 years ago but think it was due to NSAIDs - no bad reaction with recent stings though but also no NSAIDs for years.

We, use two dabs of bunny hugger Tea Tree Oil and an anti-histamine - knocks two or three stings dead

Classic post, perfect.

 

[redpola]

So, all you have to do is work out, by diligent research, whether:

the risk of your girlfriend dying from what you THINK might be anaphylactic shock before getting to hospital or medical help

IS greater than

her dying from YOU injecting her with something you have been told to NEVER, EVER use on anyone else......

I'm pleased that you agree with me and not with my GP, which really was exactly the point of my bringing this up.

Neil.

 

[jezd]

I dont think he is lol

 

[redpola]

I dont think he is lol

No, he is. I assume he realises that!

My starting point was that my GP presented a blanket ban on any analysis of the situation and any consequent use of an epi-pen on a third party. It's my judgement that this literally statistically increases the risk of my partner's death.

My contention was that in a life-or-death emergency, and I specifically included a loved one in my example to add gravity to the issue, I would make an analysis about the onset of anaphylaxis and use the epi-pen as appropriate, possibly in direct contradiction to the advice of my GP.

BBG suggested exactly the same course of action, though somewhat ironically by being flippant about the subject whilst at the same time implying I was being flippant!

On balance I'm pleased with the situation because, admittedly in highly unusual circumstances, I could save my life or my girlfriend's life where I couldn't before. That compared to some folks on the forum who have said their GPs blanket refuse to issue a prescription for a pen, presumably because they judge the risk of causing greater than the risk of preventing death.

Neil.

 

[drstitson]

The GP "blanket ban" is a sensible one.

he can't know how sensible/intelligent a patient is.

what mustn't happen is for joe bloggs to see someone collapse in the street, looking red in the face with breathing difficulties and jump in with epipen.

however, a GP cannot control what happens when a fit and well 205 year old partner collapses with signs of AS after a bee sting.

NHS direct does not always offer correct advice. basic resus involves ABC - airway is first priority. in case of choking that needs a check in mouth (sweep with finger) followed by Heimlich.

would NHS direct suggest not performing CPR while awaiting ambulance in case of cardiac arrest?

 

[BBG]

I'm pleased that you agree with me and not with my GP, which really was exactly the point of my bringing this up.

Neil.

How disingenuous.

What evidence have you weighed in making said decision to inject girl friend - please list sources.

Are you sure that the unborn child she is carrying will be just another num-nuts like you after your injection.

OR

Could it be born needing permanent care from its loving, dedicated father hell-bent on being a hero, who caused said problems for his and her families by refusing to listen to his doctor.

If the girl friend is suspect allergic get her to see doctor.

 

[Mike a]

BBG

Play nice now or admin will take your toys away and sit you on the naughty step.

 

[BBG]

BBG

Play nice now or admin will take your toys away and sit you on the naughty step.

 

[victor meldrew]

Oh! Dear!,
quoting the worst possible scenario .
Anaphylaxis kills people plain and simple !
The epipen was designed for use by the layperson !
The instructions are clear and precise , including the reduced discharge time limit when administering to a child ! (5 seconds instead of 10)
The instructions state 'RING 999' immediately !
Deploy the epipen when all the symptoms of anaphylasia are present!
These are clearly listed (with Illustrations )
It's no use standing wringing your hands pondering on damage to unborn child or any other dire outcome your fertile imagination dreams up whilst someone is dying in front of your eyes!
Circumstances dictate actions !
The epipen is first aid and the use of has in every case to be followed by medical attention .
Calling people "Numb Nuts" is unhelpful , so I iterate Mike a
VM