Effectiveness of air freshener

[user 20297]

And from another point of view, what is not "chemicals"?

James

Not using chemicals is "not chemicals". Using air freshener is to use biocide, surfactants, propellants and perfumes and is chemicals.

 

[enrico]

Not using chemicals is "not chemicals". Using air freshener is to use biocide, surfactants, propellants and perfumes is chemicals.

Which is why I always point out that you are using the smallest amount and not dosing them in it. I never use it on supers. If you want you can just combine by putting the boxes together with nothing. See how that works for you

 

[Sutty]

There's the alternative of a mesh screen between them for a while first.
I've even seen a "uniting board" which is a mesh screen with a very small section of queen excluder.

 

[JamezF]

Not using chemicals is "not chemicals". Using air freshener is to use biocide, surfactants, propellants and perfumes and is chemicals.

You miss my point. What are, and perhaps more to the point what are not, "chemicals"?

James

 

[Malcolm B.]

Well I’m in the no use air freshener group not because it doesn’t work , I have used it but because it’s made up of numerous chemicals, I would like to see the evidence on trials done if any on how good it is for the bees ?

And from another point of view, what is not "chemicals"?

James

I think perhaps a better terminology might be "commercial Chemical Compounds".

Everything is composed of 'chemicals'.
Pure water is a compound of just two chemical elements.
Tap water has more than a dozen chemical elements and compounds dissolved in it.

Newsprint ink is a commercial chemical compound. It does not occur naturally and consists of several elements and compounds.
Air fresheners don't occur naturally and also are also composed of various chemical elements and compounds.

Some commercial chemical compounds are relatively benign.
Other commercial chemical compounds are aggressive and harmful in one or more ways.

Having only just discovered using Air Freshener with bees, I have a foot in both camps and I'm certainly not informed enough to argue the case For or Against.

Kind regards,

Malcolm B.

 

[JamezF]

I think perhaps a better terminology might be "commercial Chemical Compounds".

It's a difficult one and I struggle to find a term that accurately conveys what is intended. I have been thinking that something more along the lines of "synthetic chemicals" might be nearer the mark, but even that doesn't make a distinction between chemicals that can be man-made but also occur naturally (isoamyl acetate being one that gets mentioned here from time to time).

James

 

[user 20297]

You miss my point. What are, and perhaps more to the point what are not, "chemicals"?

James

We'll...it was very early when I replied. I assumed that we all know what @Curly green finger's is getting at. I would object if anyone used aerosol air-freshener in my home and more strongly if anywhere near food or over my granddaughters. Apparently, bees are my favourite girls, so I would apply the same restrictions to the use of a non-approved "chemical" over them.

 

[user 20297]

Repetition, Repetition.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I think perhaps a better terminology might be "commercial Chemical Compounds".

Everything is composed of 'chemicals'.
Pure water is a compound of just two chemical elements.
Tap water has more than a dozen chemical elements and compounds dissolved in it.

Newsprint ink is a commercial chemical compound. It does not occur naturally and consists of several elements and compounds.
Air fresheners don't occur naturally and also are also composed of various chemical elements and compounds.

Some commercial chemical compounds are relatively benign.
Other commercial chemical compounds are aggressive and harmful in one or more ways.

Having only just discovered using Air Freshener with bees, I have a foot in both camps and I'm certainly not informed enough to argue the case For or Against.

Kind regards,

Malcolm B.

Thanks for that Malcolm , perhaps in the future there will be a air freshener on the market specifically for uniting colony’s and has been tested .

 

[Malcolm B.]

It's a difficult one and I struggle to find a term that accurately conveys what is intended.

I agree.

Perhaps I could quote a similar example that I used to experience.

Until retirement I ran a swimming pool consultancy and engineering business.

We would regularly have retail clients who wished to operate their home swimming pool "without using any chemicals."

We had to explain that what they really desired was 'adequate disinfection without the use of harsh aggressive chemicals.'

(This was more or less achievable in most cases since bather loads on residential pools is substantially lower that that of commercial pools.)

Even the so called 'Natural Pools' would have a variety of chemicals dissolved in the water.
However, these chemicals had no harmful effects on humans or wildlife.

>>>something more along the lines of "synthetic chemicals"<<<

Perhaps "Proven to be Benign" chemicals?

Kind regards,

Malcolm B.

 

[Malcolm B.]

Repetition, Repetition

You missed out "Hesitation or Deviation". he he he he
(with apologies to "Just a Minute")

 

[user 20297]

You missed out "Hesitation or Deviation". he he he he
(with apologies to "Just a Minute")

"Without deviation" is the greatest of all challenges for, (I hesitate to say), 90% of all contributors to this forum, and 100% to myself.

 

[pargyle]

Well I’m in the no use air freshener group not because it doesn’t work , I have used it but because it’s made up of numerous chemicals, I would like to see the evidence on trials done if any on how good it is for the bees ?

So ...Mark, you are into difficult territory here ... you treat your bees for varroa with 'chemicals' for instance OA ... but you are reluctant to introduce 'chemicals' into your beekeeping in the form of air freshener ? I am on the other side of the argument as I won't introduce anything into my hives unless the bees bring it in ... hence no 'chemicals'... but I use a waft of air freshener to combine colonies as my position is that I'm not actually introducing it into the hive - it's done like smoke or water spray .. a wafting over the top and bottom of the boxes I'm combining. And it works - not everything needs to be proven scientifically in my book ...

I sense a dichotomy here ....

 

[Malcolm B.]

I sense a dichotomy here ....

How about the "Don't know's" in the middle?
Surely it's a trichotomy ?

Seriously though,
>>>but I use a waft of air freshener to combine colonies as my position is that I'm not actually introducing it into the hive - it's done like smoke or water spray <<<
This is rather like oxygen. Breath about 21% in air and you are fine. Increase the ratio and it progressively becomes a poison to kill you.

 

[Moobee]

I've just been down to our local shop to ask for a cheap deodorant.
The shop keeper asked me if I want a 'ball type'.
I just said "No. It's just for under my arms."
I don't know why, but he looked puzzled.

Ah, the old ones are the best #notthenineoclocknews

 

[Curly green finger's]

So ...Mark, you are into difficult territory here ... you treat your bees for varroa with 'chemicals' for instance OA ... but you are reluctant to introduce 'chemicals' into your beekeeping in the form of air freshener ? I am on the other side of the argument as I won't introduce anything into my hives unless the bees bring it in ... hence no 'chemicals'... but I use a waft of air freshener to combine colonies as my position is that I'm not actually introducing it into the hive - it's done like smoke or water spray .. a wafting over the top and bottom of the boxes I'm combining. And it works - not everything needs to be proven scientifically in my book ...

I sense a dichotomy here ....

The difference is oxalic has been used as a varroa treatment and has had a lot of testing done for a good while, we can’t say the same for air freshener.
Isn’t oxalic a natural chemical found in plants?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for that Malcolm , perhaps in the future there will be a air freshener on the market specifically for uniting colony’s and has been tested .

Careful what you wish for or the vmd will want to licence it

 

[Curly green finger's]

Careful what you wish for or the vmd will want to licence it

Who are the vmd

 

[hairywill]

In the past I have brewed up a tea using some apilife var, filtered it and then sprayed that using an atomiser spray.

 

[JamezF]

Isn’t oxalic a natural chemical found in plants?

It's kind of a bit more complicated than that if you look at the chemistry, but fundamentally yes, it's present in many different plants, quite a number of which are eaten by humans. For some reason it's particularly associated with rhubarb leaves though other plants that are commonly eaten contain higher levels.

The entire situation is more complicated though. Take for instance the perfume element of the air freshener spray. Say for the sake of argument it smells like lavender. What may have been done is that scientists will have analysed the chemicals that lavender flowers release into the air and picked out those ones that humans identify as being particular to lavender. Because it's a whole lot of faff to extract those chemicals from plants on the scale required for industrial production, they may then come up with a way to synthesise the same compounds more quickly and more cheaply. Ultimately it's the same set of chemicals though, however they're produced. Obviously as already pointed out there will be propellant and other stuff in the can too, but even those may be naturally-occurring and/or considered safe (the intention is that humans will inhale some of this stuff after all, otherwise there'd be no point in it). So deciding where to draw the line isn't necessarily straightforward.

James