Drone laying workers with queen present?

[Canary Honey]

First year of beekeeping, and few posts so be gentle.

My main hive is not fully expanded in the brood and is just onto its second super. Delia and the girls don't seem very keen on the rest of the brood box but are happy to go up into the super. Anyway, on the last few frames in the brood which have been drawn out, the cells are mostly filled with nectar but mixed in are a few scattered capped drone larvae. Are some of the girls getting fed up with waiting for Delia to give up the eggs, a few frames away can't be too far for her queenie effects to be felt?

CH

 

[itma]

Drones take longest from egg to bee, so if the frame was used for brood and has been backfilled with nectar as brood emerges, the last of the brood remaining will be drones.

The brood box is the engine of the colony.
Without getting it FULLY drawn and in-use before adding supers, the colony isn't "firing on all cylinders".

Problem is, if there isn't much available space in the brood box, and what ther is is being back-filled with nectar, there is a very high probability of swarming. And Delia going off to a bigger club.


Brood pheromones (more or less completely - for the complications read up on "worker policing") inhibit workers from laying. You'd expect a period of (perhaps weeks of) broodlessness (as a result of a longer period of queenlessness) before workers are laying (and allow another couple of weeks before you see capped drone brood).


It sounds to me as though the major concern is likely to be a shortage of empty drawn comb in the brood box - and consequently, a risk of swarming. Watch out for Queen Cells!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Bees will "chimney". You have to discourage it by gently rearranging brood frames. If you can, condense the 2 supers to one, using all the drawn frames. Then do something like turning the outermost brood frames etc to GENTLY expand the brood nest sideways.

 

[Finman]

... do something like turning the outermost brood frames etc to GENTLY expand the brood nest sideways.

Expand brood nest gently, that is last thing what a beekeeper should do.

 

[Finman]

... do something like turning the outermost brood frames etc to GENTLY expand the brood nest sideways.

Expand brood nest gently, that is last thing what a beekeeper should do.

If bees are too few and hive is too cold, the queen goes up to lay. But it is same where it lays.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Reteading the original post, any chance of some pics?

 

[Canary Honey]

It sounds to me as though the major concern is likely to be a shortage of empty drawn comb in the brood box - and consequently, a risk of swarming. Watch out for Queen Cells!

That seems to be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUTzIYZBNlQ go to 18:40, skipping the other squit.
It is newly drawn out comb (incomplete) except for where there is capped drone brood. Previous week there had been the start of a queen cell or two which were removed and first super added even though there were a few untouched frames in the brood (not short of space if they actually looked, but couldn't be fussed with drawing comb in the cool end)

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I enjoyed the video; good to see someone enjoying their bees. Good to see you rocking no QE. All one size box makes that easier. There's a bunch of small stuff (close holes in crowboard etc) but the big one is you MUST read. A LOT. Start with the Welsh BKA publication about queen cells and report back. Ripping them out is never an adequate response and might have been a bad mistake if they were supersedure cells. Did I get it right; you just saw the Q, right?. Good luck.

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

From your description, probably just play cups but do report. With no QE, rearranging frAmes to make more laying space is plan A but it depends on the cells.

 

[beeno]

Hi Canary Honey,
Welcome to the forum. Sorry, could not find your previous posts, how did you come by your bees and is Delia a proven laying queen? Make sure that the frames in the brood box are tightly squeezed together on the 'shoulders' (no gap) as otherwise you will get more brace comb to clear up. In the super people leave more space between frames to allow for wider combs for honey storage, but this also can go wrong unless the space is increased gradually. Nice looking bees.

 

[itma]

... Previous week there had been the start of a queen cell or two which were removed and first super added even though there were a few untouched frames in the brood (not short of space if they actually looked, but couldn't be fussed with drawing comb in the cool end)

"Space" doesn't mean volume!
Foundation doesn't count.
In this context "space" means unoccupied (by anything) drawn comb.

 

[Canary Honey]

I understand the terminology now. There is available volume which the girls can't be bothered to draw out but little space. What with Delia laying on a few frames or four and many of the workforce foraging the glut, it doesn't look like anyone has been assigned to comb building. However with the addition of a super, comb building became more popular.

Delia is still there (and unlikely to be interested in any other hive in Kent, she might have fallen from the Premiership, but please).

They are very nice bees, a little small but very hard working, busy even in heavy rain and when it is almost dark. Accurate fast flyers compared to my guest swarm who seem a little larger and have a more leisurely manner.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes they're nice bees. Enjoy and don't be afraid to ask.

 

[beeno]

Hi again,
Two old frames in the middle and talking of Delia having fallen out of the premiership, hope she did not hear you, is this an A/S of your other hive or a split? The bees are not interested in the brood box, because its warmer up top and there is no brood to feed. When all the brood have emerged in the brood box they will all be in the supers.
Forget about the honey for this colony. Your priority is to make sure they are Q+ and strong enough to overwinter. This is what I would do if I were you, put all the supers on the other colony, after making sure that Delia is not on them. Store empty supers if not required. This will direct all the nectar into brood box where there is lots of comb to be drawn which they will do as and when they require it for storage or brood laying. I was concerned about one of my new queens only having one saucer shape of polished cells to lay in and the week after she had plenty of space, because they used the nectar to draw comb. Next time the colony draws QC I would keep one, she should be laying if she is an old queen. Have fun. Its nice that you have a bee buddy.
P.S. To avoid any possibility of a misunderstanding - all bees in supers would have to be shaken into brood box before placing on the other colony.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

And a "by the way" from me on the point about gentle or otherwise rearranging of the brood frames. I find Finman one of the best resources on here, and like some of the other great resources on here (oliver90owner springs to mind), "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen". He's right, there are less gentle alternatives. So by all means Google "checkerboarding" and the like. But (as I know from my limited experience) brood frame manipulation can trigger swarm behaviour so you learn by experience. And making mistakes is fine; losing Delia to a swarm is not the end of the world. (But then leaving more than one QC might be...) Again, good luck.

 

[Canary Honey]

Thanks for the replies.
I have checked through again tonight, Delia is present, drones have emerged and no sign of any further strange activity. Some honey is capped. I got stung, my first time with my own bees.